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Day 3... The Wounding


#1

As suggested, I am posting up a log on key days, detailing my results and actions taken. This is the first, after of course, the initial depilation.

It’s been 2 days since depilation.Skin is slick and shiny. Applied Scalp Renew as directed and worked in really well, rubbing it in for 15 mins. Initial appraisal of the Scalp Renew is that it may not be sufficiently severe to trigger off an adequate wound response.There is a slight warm feeling to the scalp that can be attributed to a combination of my rubbing and the chemical reaction of the product. However, I shall leave it on for a total of one hour. Plans are if it doesn’t do the damage well enough, I may use the remaining glycolic peel I have or do it the Al Quaeda method and sand it viciously.

The Scalp Renew was underwhelming to say the least. It made my scalp feel fresh and clean but that’s about all. I don’t feel it suits my needs for the experiment. With that in mind, I applied 30% glycolic peel to the scalp after I had washed away the Scalp Renew. I left that on for 6 minutes and neutralised it and washed it off.
I still wasn’t satisfied so I sanded the entire scalp gently but did manage to draw a few spots of blood in places. There are now some bright red areas but just like last time, the whole area doesn’t go red despite my diligent (and some would say, quite aggressive) assault on those areas. From past experience, the scalp does not look as bad immediately after abrasion. The horror show comes after about a day. I plan on applying the topical onto the raw skin later this evening. I’m not looking forward to that at all. All in the interests of science. And hair of course. :slight_smile:


#2

» As suggested, I am posting up a log on key days, detailing my results and
» actions taken. This is the first, after of course, the initial depilation.
»
»
» It’s been 2 days since depilation.Skin is slick and shiny. Applied Scalp
» Renew as directed and worked in really well, rubbing it in for 15 mins.
» Initial appraisal of the Scalp Renew is that it may not be sufficiently
» severe to trigger off an adequate wound response.There is a slight warm
» feeling to the scalp that can be attributed to a combination of my rubbing
» and the chemical reaction of the product. However, I shall leave it on for
» a total of one hour. Plans are if it doesn’t do the damage well enough, I
» may use the remaining glycolic peel I have or do it the Al Quaeda method
» and sand it viciously.
»
» The Scalp Renew was underwhelming to say the least. It made my scalp feel
» fresh and clean but that’s about all. I don’t feel it suits my needs for
» the experiment. With that in mind, I applied 30% glycolic peel to the scalp
» after I had washed away the Scalp Renew. I left that on for 6 minutes and
» neutralised it and washed it off.
» I still wasn’t satisfied so I sanded the entire scalp gently but did
» manage to draw a few spots of blood in places. There are now some bright
» red areas but just like last time, the whole area doesn’t go red despite my
» diligent (and some would say, quite aggressive) assault on those areas.
» From past experience, the scalp does not look as bad immediately after
» abrasion. The horror show comes after about a day. I plan on applying the
» topical onto the raw skin later this evening. I’m not looking forward to
» that at all. All in the interests of science. And hair of course. :slight_smile:

Baccy,

Been following your posts for a time, great work. I will be doing wounding experiments in the winter. Your update posts during the process is a great idea. I know you get a lot responses, but, I just want to touch on more specifics so other experimenters have more to go on…

What grit sand paper did you use?

Did you apply any solution or mabye soap, water, etc., when you sanded?

The glycolic peel came mixed at 30% or if not what was it mixed with?

Scalp Renew was neutralized by what?

And finally, what are your plans for washing hair during this phase…none…just warm water, and or soap?

Thanks so much, Good Luck!


#3

» Baccy,
»
» Been following your posts for a time, great work. I will be doing
» wounding experiments in the winter. Your update posts during the process
» is a great idea. I know you get a lot responses, but, I just want to touch
» on more specifics so other experimenters have more to go on…
»
» What grit sand paper did you use?
»
» Did you apply any solution or mabye soap, water, etc., when you sanded?
»
» The glycolic peel came mixed at 30% or if not what was it mixed with?
»
» Scalp Renew was neutralized by what?
»
» And finally, what are your plans for washing hair during this
» phase…none…just warm water, and or soap?
»
»
» Thanks so much, Good Luck!

I used fine sandpaper. The grade according to the packet is 240 (used for smoothing and finishing).
No solution used at all. I sanded the dry scalp after I’d washed away the neutraliser from the 30% glycolic peel (which was premixed BTW bought online. Personally, I’m never satisfied with the damage done by a peel).
The neutraliser was the ready-made chemical which came with the peel.
Washing hair really isn’t a problem as I’m bald. But I plan on not washing the area until it’s healed. I’ll just soap my hair around the sides when I shower.


#4

Good luck fella, my fingers are crossed for you :ok:


#5

Good luck, and please be careful as possible, given that you’ve
decided to forge ahead with the process, and thanks for providing
your insight and results for everyone’s information.

I noticed that you are changing your method of EGF inhibition
to tannic acid and employing pre-depilation in your current
scheme. Any variations in the scenario planned this time around?

It will be very interesting to see if the pre-depilation is
actually a key to increasing the effectiveness of the process.
It seems from the literature online that depilation increases
the supply of undifferentiated stem cells (originating
from the damaged follicle) within the follicles and even in
the epidermis around a follicle within a few days.

One of the Follica patents sure seems to imply that the this
will have an impact.

I wonder what the “pre-stimulation” mentioned in the recent
Intercytex trials consisted of, which had such a positive
influence on their results? – if pre-depilation was
used there also? Anyone seen any literature on the specifics?


#6

» As suggested, I am posting up a log on key days, detailing my results and
» actions taken. This is the first, after of course, the initial depilation.
»
»
» It’s been 2 days since depilation.Skin is slick and shiny. Applied Scalp
» Renew as directed and worked in really well, rubbing it in for 15 mins.
» Initial appraisal of the Scalp Renew is that it may not be sufficiently
» severe to trigger off an adequate wound response.There is a slight warm
» feeling to the scalp that can be attributed to a combination of my rubbing
» and the chemical reaction of the product. However, I shall leave it on for
» a total of one hour. Plans are if it doesn’t do the damage well enough, I
» may use the remaining glycolic peel I have or do it the Al Quaeda method
» and sand it viciously.
»
» The Scalp Renew was underwhelming to say the least. It made my scalp feel
» fresh and clean but that’s about all. I don’t feel it suits my needs for
» the experiment. With that in mind, I applied 30% glycolic peel to the scalp
» after I had washed away the Scalp Renew. I left that on for 6 minutes and
» neutralised it and washed it off.
» I still wasn’t satisfied so I sanded the entire scalp gently but did
» manage to draw a few spots of blood in places. There are now some bright
» red areas but just like last time, the whole area doesn’t go red despite my
» diligent (and some would say, quite aggressive) assault on those areas.
» From past experience, the scalp does not look as bad immediately after
» abrasion. The horror show comes after about a day. I plan on applying the
» topical onto the raw skin later this evening. I’m not looking forward to
» that at all. All in the interests of science. And hair of course. :slight_smile:

Can you take a pic so we know how much you wounded the scalp ? :slight_smile:


#7

» Can you take a pic so we know how much you wounded the scalp ? :slight_smile:

I haven’t got a cam. It’s my pal who’s got the cam and I can’t really step outside the house without a hat at the moment. Plus, timing my time off work with his free time is difficult. My present belief is wound quite severely but not enough to draw blood everywhere. A spot of blood here and there is acceptable I suppose.


#8

» the experiment. With that in mind, I applied 30% glycolic peel to the scalp
» after I had washed away the Scalp Renew. I left that on for 6 minutes and
» neutralised it and washed it off.
» I still wasn’t satisfied so I sanded the entire scalp gently but did
» manage to draw a few spots of blood in places. There are now some bright

Peel takes time…you don’t see the results immediately. Peels just kill the skin on your head and then your body goes into repair mode, which causes the skin to peel off over several days - hence “Peel”, and new skin shows up from underneath. I would strongly advise people to either stick with Peel OR Sandpaper because combining both Could cause scarring.


#9

» » »
» Peel takes time…you don’t see the results immediately. Peels just kill
» the skin on your head and then your body goes into repair mode, which
» causes the skin to peel off over several days - hence “Peel”, and new skin
» shows up from underneath. I would strongly advise people to either stick
» with Peel OR Sandpaper because combining both Could cause scarring.

I agree with this strongly.

I had peeled with .25% PCA for five or six mintues…but didn’t feel “satisfied” that it removed enough of the dermis. The next day I did some light sanding. In about four days the skin was peeling off just like a sunburn.

Ive taken Getfitinib since 2 days post wounding, and have taken an oral anti-histamine daily, and have used ibuprofen much of the time as an anti-inflammatory. I might have screwed the whole thing up 3 days post wounding though, but I hope not. I applied minoxidil foam at that time. I had no inflammation-----but it burned like all hell. I quickly washed it off, but I hope I didn’t throw the whole process. I have washed my hair three times briefly since this process has began. I simply cannot stand oily hair. Thats another variable Ive introduced. I was pretty tight for the first three days “on the procedure” though, and Im pretty confident that the important time. Ive applied minox behind the abraded area since. Im now seven days past wouding, and will start applying minox to the area (which is still peeling a bit). Tonight will be my last getfitinib tablet taken, and I cant get off that stuff soon enough. Maybe I have a virus or something, but its probably the getfitinib. Ive had diarreah for a week. I simply cannot digest anything. Maybe I’ll get hair out of this, maybe not. It HAS been a sacrafice though.

An observation on Baccy’s success: Follica may find that different skin types need different pathways blocked up upregulated. Baccy might not need an anti-inflammatory or anti-histamine (both are in the patent), but many of us might. Some of us might not need any immunosuppression, but people with certain hyperactive immune systems might need to have tacromilus or pimecromilus creams put on the wouned area.

The things “in the patent” that could concievably be taken internally are the anti-androgen (dutasteride or finasteride), minxoidil (as loniten tablets), anti-histamine (claritin), anti-inflammatory (ibuprofen, advil, etc), EGF-antagonist (getfitinib, arava, etc).

We will see…after seeing the pictures of the hair on the guys nose, the hair in the middle of a bald head, and knowing Follica was able to make human hair grow on human skin grafted on to SCID mice, I KNOW it works and will be made to work…but realize Follica has a much better chance at it than we do.

Actually for the forum’s readers, now should be a pretty good time of optimism. The fact that Aderans is doing a phase two here in America should really be confidence boost for everyone. Obviously they think they have something in Atlanta and Philidelphia, or they wouldn’t be doing a trial like this. Thats two DIFFERENT methodologies being pursued in hair multiplication not including what possible results ACELL might have. Its mathematically very unlikely all three will bear no fruit in at least being able to generate hair in the donor area----enabling a FUE surgeon to have much more to work with in the very least.


#10

» Peel takes time…you don’t see the results immediately. Peels just kill
» the skin on your head and then your body goes into repair mode, which
» causes the skin to peel off over several days - hence “Peel”, and new skin
» shows up from underneath. I would strongly advise people to either stick
» with Peel OR Sandpaper because combining both Could cause scarring.

In my observations, the Scalp Renew product, when applied for the
10-minute processing period documented at:

http://www.scalprenew.co.nz/NZ-Scalp-Renew-Index.htm

produces just this effect over a period of 2 or 3 days. Slight
peeling (barely noticeable) of the upper stratum corneum occurs
in that time frame. Seems unclear what “disruption” effect,
if any, occurs beyond that.

…incidentally, I’m wondering what effects (particularly with
respect to rejuvination vs. regeneration of follicles) would
be likely to occur in a scheme with just depilation and no
further wounding, followed by a treatment such as the one
described here?


#11

Have you ever thought of keeping a blog? There are people all over the world that would be interested in what you are doing. Not only that, you could start an online community of your own around such a blog and even get advertisement to pay for some of the products to boot.

Hell, you could probably set up a donation box and collect funds to further your research…I know I would pay!


#12

» Have you ever thought of keeping a blog? There are people all over the
» world that would be interested in what you are doing. Not only that, you
» could start an online community of your own around such a blog and even get
» advertisement to pay for some of the products to boot.
»
» Hell, you could probably set up a donation box and collect funds to
» further your research…I know I would pay!

But he would be researching something that’s already patent-pending


#13

-Is’t there any risk that taking an EGF antagonist through out the wounding may halt the natural healing process and the building of new tissue-epithelial cells ?

-However, your “theory” baccy about the fact that the body may need a certain period of time with EFG antagonist intake until it gets to the desired status sounds rational to me.


#14

» -Is’t there any risk that taking an EGF antagonist through out the wounding
» may halt the natural healing process and the building of new
» tissue-epithelial cells ?
»
» -However, your “theory” baccy about the fact that the body may need a
» certain period of time with EFG antagonist intake until it gets to the
» desired status sounds rational to me.

From the patent

Example 12: Enhancement of EDIHN by inhibition of EGF receptor. (Mouse skin—which takes 11 days to reepilthialize vs. 3 days for people in shallow wounds)
To determine the effect of administration of EGF receptor inhibitors on DIHN, the inhibitor AG1478 (150 μM in 10 μL volume) was administered as a single injection 11 days after incisional wounding (1 cm2) to the middle of the wound near the skin surface. EGF receptor inhibitor administration led to generation of more and larger hair follicles compared with control mice that were wounded only (Figure 26A). As shown in Figure 26B, large hair follicles developed in the wounded area in the AG1478-injected mice. Left panel: epidermis stained for K 17, with three large hair follicles next to each other. Right panel: dermis stained for AP with large coalescing dermal papilla areas.

The findings of this Example confirm the results of the previous Example, and show that more and larger HF can be generated when EDIHN comprises, or is followed by, administration of EGFR inhibitors, or with compounds with a similar mechanism of action; e.g., Hedgehog protein and androgen antagonists.

What this shows is that they could wait 11 days after wouding, when the skin was almost finished re-epilithializing in the mice before administering an EGF antagonist, and still get a much heightened response.

Inhibition of new hair by ADDING EGF 11 days into the process (mice again).

Example 11: Inhibition of EDIHN by epidermal growth factor injection.

21 day-old mice were wounded as described in previous Examples. Starting from day 11 after wounding, a time point corresponding to the point at which the wound had recently re-epithelialized, 10 mL of 1 mg/ml EGF was injected into the wound bed. EGF was injected once per day after this point for a total of 5 days. Three days later, the skin was collected, and whole-mount EDIHN assays were performed. EGF prevented HF formation as assessed by gross morphology . In addition, whole mounts of control and treated skin were analyzed with anti-K17 antibody immunostaining. All mice injected with EGF (n=4) exhibited no new HF formation (Figures 25 A-B), while control mice (n=2) had many new HF, as expected. (Figures 25 C-D).

In an additional experiment, recombinant EGF (1 microgram

(mcg)/microliter (mcl)) was injected at days 11, 13 and 15 after wounding.

Skin was collected at 18 days after wounding and stained for K17 and alkaline phosphotase. Once again, administration of EGF inhibited EDIHN.

The skin has to re-epilithialize for hair to form or be stopped from forming either way, at least in mice. I dont know whether or not inhibiting EGF before this time will matter or not. I suspect it would be OK to do so, but uneccessary to get hair unless there are more profound differences between our skin and mice skin than I heretofore expected. Somebody could probably do a search on “reepililthialization and EGF” and find out more (not me though, Im tired).

The findings of this Example show that EGF inhibits HF formation. Thus, inhibiting EGF, EGFR, or one of the pathways in which they participate increases EDIHN- induced HF formation.