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Chemical Peel


#1

I wondering if applying a chemical peel on a scalp that has hair would improve the quality of hair? I am going to give it a try. For anyone who has used a chemical peel, where is the best place to purhcase and which product?


#2

» I wondering if applying a chemical peel on a scalp that has hair would
» improve the quality of hair? I am going to give it a try. For anyone who
» has used a chemical peel, where is the best place to purhcase and which
» product?

http://www.makeupartistschoice.com/catalog/TCA_Peels-22-1.html

I can’t give any advice on TCA peels as I have not tried the one I got delivered yet. I’m awaiting topical gefitinib from another poster. As far as strength or type of peel, maybe someone else can give you the best advice.


#3

thanks


#4

I had a chemical peel last year. TCA peel. The thing burnt my forehead and made indelible scars, hardly visible though, from what people tell me (? you know, a scar YOU have always seems a lifetime and obvious disgrace to YOUR eyes and passes unnoticed to the others). TCA is s__t, can get into the bloodstream and will do no good to your hair. the only outlook you can have is to burn your follicles. If you want to use a mild but continuous peeling process, simply use tretinoin.


#5

I’ve used TCA at 20% twice

Once with 3 layers

and again at 2 layers

had no side affects, and does not go deep enough to damage hair follicles let alone burn them

for a good quality product try platinum skin care

as an aside i’m experimenting with tca to wound and lithium chloride and DMSO and a wnt upregulator


#6

» I’ve used TCA at 20% twice
»
» Once with 3 layers
»
» and again at 2 layers
»
» had no side affects, and does not go deep enough to damage hair follicles
» let alone burn them
»
» for a good quality product try platinum skin care
»
» as an aside i’m experimenting with tca to wound and lithium chloride and
» DMSO and a wnt upregulator

The act of wounding should boost wnt and lithium should do the same. What more r u going to use to up wnt? WNT should be inhibited for about 10 days b4 boosting it. EGFR is a question mark for me as when to use but I started at day 1 because I didn’t want to miss the window. U should really use getfitnib, at worse case scenario u should at least start seeing some old hairs starting to come back around the 2-3 month mark including hairline (where I stand right now). Again, I keep repeating this, u need to do at least 3 layer peel while 4 would be better. I too got my tca at platinum skin. It is good stuff, but don’t use the that cheap toothpick applicator that came along with it. Instead, use an eye dropper and rubber gloves to smooth everything out once on. It does not damage ur existing hairs, trust me.


#7

Hi mike,

i believe the amount of lithium chloride and DMSO and the rate of aborption of both is sufficient to upregulate Wnt. I don’t think anything more is needed. At the moment i’m not adding an EGFR inhibitor. The way i read the patent there are several different ways to achieve EDIHN. Non of which include an EGFR inhibitor and a wnt upregulator, correct me if i’m wrong. Also i want to keep my experiments as simple as possible. So wounding and lithium application or wounding and EGFR application or, Lithium and growth factor application are the various ways of approaching this as i see it. I’ve started with the lithium as there is anecdotal evidence out there that this works. Nevertheless, thats not say that some egfr + lithium application isn’t the route to take. But seeing as i don’t understand the affects of lithium or EGFR alone yet it’ll be a while before i put them both together.

You say that wnt should be inhibited for 10 days and then upregulated there on after. i’ve heard this said before, and i’ve read it in the patent. I will eventually get around to trying this, but i’m not convinved this is the way to go yet, there have been results from applying lithium from day 3 for 10 days and also the transenic mice that overexpressed wnt-7a, did so from birth (before the follica procedure took place, but it did not pigment), I believe those mice that had wnt suppressed were fed some form of chow that did so after the procedure (please correct me if i’m wrong on that last bit memory is a bit sketchy). Either way i’d like to prove that there EDIHN i possible with this method first.

I think you’re right 3-4 layers of tca is sufficient wounding, i would say 3 is bang on(and it doesn’t half sting) and 4 if you want to be absolutely sure, but there is a greater risk of scarring. With 3 layers it had no negative effect.

Now i’m going to throw in my two pence worth, and state what my last experiment consisted of:

day 1 - 2 layer peel
day 4 - Applied the following - DMSO = 32ml @ 84.2%
Licl = 4ml @ 10.5%
Water (distilled) = 2ml @ 5.2%

                            total 38ml

                            Twice a day morning and night
                            For 14 days

I am currently on day 9, with 5 more days to go.
This was the first time i tried a 2 layer peel, i don’t think it is sufficient. I think 3 is the right level.

As for the TCA from platinum skin care, i use the finger gloves and apply it with cotton wool.


#8

»
» day 1 - 2 layer peel
» day 4 - Applied the following - DMSO = 32ml @ 84.2%
» Licl = 4ml @ 10.5%
» Water (distilled) = 2ml @ 5.2%
»
» total 38ml
»
» Twice a day morning and night
» For 14 days
»
» I am currently on day 9, with 5 more days to go.
» This was the first time i tried a 2 layer peel, i don’t think it is
» sufficient. I think 3 is the right level.
»
» As for the TCA from platinum skin care, i use the finger gloves and apply
» it with cotton wool.

With that concentration of DMSO, it’s very likely that you smell really bad. Ask one of your close friends as you honestly cannot smell it yourself. I made the same mistake with dmso a few years ago. DMSO concentration should be kept REALLY LOW. Just enough to dissolve your materials in and carry it through the skin.
Regarding the EGF inhibition, it is mentioned in all versions of the patent along with specific inhibitors including gefitinib. Wounding alone DOES cause neogenesis but it is greatly increased if EGF is inhibited.


#9

Trust me i don’t smell of garlic, if i stank there are many people who would tell me so.

Also i think you misunderstood what i said regarding EGF inhibitors. They are mentioned in all Follica patents i agree. I am saying that Wnt upregulators and EGFR inhibitors have are not combined in a single compound for EDIHN according to the patent. That seems to be something people are putting together on their in their own experiments.

In relation to your comment about DMSO. DMSO does not, for practicable purposes permeate the skin below concentrations of 70% and the optimum percentage is 90%. SO 85% is a happy medium in my opinion.

Finally you say that DMSO concentrations at those levels would make me stink. Remember it is not the concentration in the compound that determines whether i stink or not but the concentration in my body that counts. 2ml of DMSO spread out over 24 hours would not be of a high enough concentration to make me stink.

I also think odour has alot to do with the quality of DMSO you are applying.


#10

» Trust me i don’t smell of garlic, if i stank there are many people who
» would tell me so.
»
» Also i think you misunderstood what i said regarding EGF inhibitors. They
» are mentioned in all Follica patents i agree. I am saying that Wnt
» upregulators and EGFR inhibitors have are not combined in a single compound
» for EDIHN according to the patent. That seems to be something people are
» putting together on their in their own experiments.
»
» In relation to your comment about DMSO. DMSO does not, for practicable
» purposes permeate the skin below concentrations of 70% and the optimum
» percentage is 90%. SO 85% is a happy medium in my opinion.
»
» Finally you say that DMSO concentrations at those levels would make me
» stink. Remember it is not the concentration in the compound that
» determines whether i stink or not but the concentration in my body that
» counts. 2ml of DMSO spread out over 24 hours would not be of a high enough
» concentration to make me stink.
»
» I also think odour has alot to do with the quality of DMSO you are
» applying.

I, certainly am not combing egfr and wnt ups in a single compound. I don’t think anyone thinks that. If I were to do the 2 I would wait at least two hours between the 2 applications. Btw, Baccy, the compound I sent u has dmso in it. I don’t notice anything in the way I smelled. Buthey… it is only for 2 weeks or so right? A small price to pay imho.


#11

I read that apple cider vinegar is great for hair loss. The one I use is 5% acidity and can provide a peel depending on how long you leave it on. ACV is supposed to be great taken internally (diluted) as well as externally (full concentration). Believe it or not, it can actually remove a wart or skin tag and I’ve read that it can remove moles. Just soak a peace of cotton, apply it with a bandaid and change regularly. There are many ways it can be applied to the entire scalp. Just be careful not to leave it on full strength too long because it will eventually turn the skin black, which is what happens before the wart or skin tag comes off.


#12

» » Trust me i don’t smell of garlic, if i stank there are many people who
» » would tell me so.
» »
» » Also i think you misunderstood what i said regarding EGF inhibitors.
» They
» » are mentioned in all Follica patents i agree. I am saying that Wnt
» » upregulators and EGFR inhibitors have are not combined in a single
» compound
» » for EDIHN according to the patent. That seems to be something people
» are
» » putting together on their in their own experiments.
Btw, Baccy, the compound I
» sent u has dmso in it. I don’t notice anything in the way I smelled.
» Buthey… it is only for 2 weeks or so right? A small price to pay imho.

Cheers Mike. Yes I’m aware that the mix you’ve sent has dmso in it. And I’m willing to give it a go for 2 weeks and hope that I don’t get the ‘stink effect’. Last time, I was told that I stank like rotten cabbage! You cannot smell it yourself at all. But others certainly can.

On another note Mike, are you actually getting a discernible hair shadow on your hairline? This would show that the forming follicles are deep.
Oh and have a look at my other post addressed to you lower down regarding proposed protocol for this wounding with gefit. Cheers.


#13

Moomin,

are you from Finland? :slight_smile:

» You say that wnt should be inhibited for 10 days and then upregulated
» there on after. i’ve heard this said before, and i’ve read it in the
» patent.

Well, it’s been speculated that due to the difference in reepithelization speed between mice and humans, WNT should only be inhibited for a few days.

Some questions if you don’t mind:

1a) How many days after application of the peel did the skin reepithelize in your experiment? When did the scab fall off?
1b) How would you describe the wound? Did you look like someone went over your head with cheese grater? Was the damage clearly visible? How much would someone else notice?

2a) How much hair do you have (Norwood and density)?
2b) How long is it? (the hair :wink: )
2c) How long have you been balding/thinning
2d) What other stuff do you use against hair loss? Finasteride, Dutasteride, Minoxidil, Ketoconazole, other?

3)How large was the area that you wounded? The entire scalp?

  1. Did you use any other method of dermabrasion in conjunction with the TCA peel? Sanding? Scrubbing?

Please keep us posted with your progress (successful or not). We need all the information we can get. It is good to know what works as well as what doesn’t work so we can avoid redundant experiments.

Good luck!


#14

Hi P

» 1a) How many days after application of the peel did the skin reepithelize
» in your experiment? When did the scab fall off?

I’d say it started at around 7 days and really got going at day 10 ( for btoh 2 and 3 layer peel.

» 1b) How would you describe the wound? Did you look like someone went over
» your head with cheese grater? Was the damage clearly visible? How much
» would someone else notice?

Initially you don’t really notice the wound, if you look at it and move the sking gently it looks tougher and more leathery, also by about day 4/5 it turns a brownish colour maybe a shade or two darker than it should be. At 3 layers large flakes of dead skin will rise from the scalp THEY MUST NOT BE PULLED OFF. However i found using electric shears on a very low setting will remov the flakes acceptably without causing damage. Fortunately i have periods where i work from home. Nevertheless, if you’re going out and haven’t had the opportunity to shave those lovely flakes off, i advise you invest in a hat (available at all good stores :D) The flakes disappear for the most part by about day 14.

» 2a) How much hair do you have (Norwood and density)?

I would say i’m approximately a 3 ont he Nor scale

» 2b) How long is it? (the hair :wink: )

I shave my hair off, below a 1. hair loss is at the crown, very sparse, about 2 inch bald spot. rest of the hair is at the same density, other than the temples which has receeded slightly, 1/2 to 3/4 of a cm.

» 2c) How long have you been balding/thinning

started at 20/21, am now 26

» 2d) What other stuff do you use against hair loss? Finasteride,
» Dutasteride, Minoxidil, Ketoconazole, other?

Finasteride

» 3)How large was the area that you wounded? The entire scalp?

Not the entire scalp just beyond the bald area, by about 1cm

» 4) Did you use any other method of dermabrasion in conjunction with the
» TCA peel? Sanding? Scrubbing?

No

Thanks for the good luck, however i do not feel this experiment like the one before it will be succesful.

The first experiment consisted of 3 layer peel, half the amount of Lithium applied once a day and DMSO concentration at around 45%. In my opinion not enough lithium and too low a concentration of DMSO.

In my second experiment you’ll see i increased DMSO concentration and amount of lithium and frequency of application to what i now believe is sufficient, but i wanted to see what a 2 layer peel produced, its not sufficient. I believe 3 layers is.

SO my 3rd experiment will copy the second but with 3 peels instead of 2.

Mikewaters i suppose no one is including lithium with an EGFR inhibitor in a single compound, but they are combining it in a single procedure, if this procedure is in either patent i haven’t coem across it yet, please point me to it.


#15

Thanks for all the answers, Moomin! Let’s hope you get some results from this experiment or the next. Please keep us posted!

@Everyone:

I’m a bit curious how TCA peels relate to sanding in terms of timing. Would day 0 when sanding correspond to the day that the large flakes start appearing when using a TCA peel?

TCA day 4 = sanding day 0?

Any insights?

/p


#16

» On another note Mike, are you actually getting a discernible hair shadow
» on your hairline? This would show that the forming follicles are deep.
» Oh and have a look at my other post addressed to you lower down regarding
» proposed protocol for this wounding with gefit. Cheers.

Yes, I am. It will take about 3 months to know for certain of these growth where you can see it for sure. In fact, they are dark and growing but not at the same pace as the terminals. But, they are far outpacing the new hairs below in terms of growth. The “new ones” are not as pigmented but growing painfully slow. I’ve read about the results you want and I think this will help. You might as well go straight accross (wounding) like I did and see new vs old. For those other reading this I know it hard to believe but wounding + getfitnib did something definitely, even without phucking around with WNT.


#17

» » On another note Mike, are you actually getting a discernible hair shadow
» » on your hairline? This would show that the forming follicles are deep.
» » Oh and have a look at my other post addressed to you lower down
» regarding
» » proposed protocol for this wounding with gefit. Cheers.
»
» Yes, I am. It will take about 3 months to know for certain of these
» growth where you can see it for sure. In fact, they are dark and growing
» but not at the same pace as the terminals. But, they are far outpacing the
» new hairs below in terms of growth. The “new ones” are not as pigmented
» but growing painfully slow. I’ve read about the results you want and I
» think this will help. You might as well go straight accross (wounding)
» like I did and see new vs old. For those other reading this I know it hard
» to believe but wounding + getfitnib did something definitely, even without
» phucking around with WNT.

Note: When I pull my hair back, I can see dark pigmented hairs between the gaps of the terminal hairs along my hairline (remember I’m a diffuser and receding slightly) and right below that the is a row of, I would estimate 1/8", of dark vellous hairs working it’s way out. Judging from what I can see, I think it is safe to say the same thing is happening to my top.


#18

guys! we are playing with way too many variables here…immunosuppresant, EGFRs, multiple peels etc etc. And the FACT that NO-ONE has followed a consistent standard/pattern is also not helping the rest of us either.

We should keep it simple at the beginning just so that we can regrow thick hairs albeit a few, and when we figure the technique out then we can try methods to increase throughput.

First of all, the whole EGFR inhibitor mess is wasting way too much time and energy and all EGF inhibition does is that it increases the number of follicles NOT the quality of the follicles. Our first priority should be to grow even few BUT thick hairs, and nothing in the patent suggests that EGF will help us grow thicker hair!

So lets keep it at getting the WNT and peeling right. Remember that Dr. Cotsarelis himself said that they are not expecting any pigmentation issues because human skin has color in it unlike the mouse skin which has no color. Therefore, WNT alone should be enough.

To keep things simple, I’d say do a good 30% TCA peel - 1 layer, and follow through with copper pepptides and lithium. Then wait for at least a month, and if nothing, then maybe a 2 layer peel and up the lithium etc.


#19

» guys! we are playing with way too many variables here…immunosuppresant,
» EGFRs, multiple peels etc etc. And the FACT that NO-ONE has followed a
» consistent standard/pattern is also not helping the rest of us either.
»
» We should keep it simple at the beginning just so that we can regrow thick
» hairs albeit a few, and when we figure the technique out then we can try
» methods to increase throughput.
»
» First of all, the whole EGFR inhibitor mess is wasting way too much time
» and energy and all EGF inhibition does is that it increases the number of
» follicles NOT the quality of the follicles. Our first priority
» should be to grow even few BUT thick hairs, and nothing in the patent
» suggests that EGF will help us grow thicker hair!
»
» So lets keep it at getting the WNT and peeling right. Remember that Dr.
» Cotsarelis himself said that they are not expecting any pigmentation issues
» because human skin has color in it unlike the mouse skin which has no
» color. Therefore, WNT alone should be enough.
»
» To keep things simple, I’d say do a good 30% TCA peel - 1 layer, and
» follow through with copper pepptides and lithium. Then wait for at least a
» month, and if nothing, then maybe a 2 layer peel and up the lithium etc.

You want to keep it simple and grow some hair back then:

30% tca peel – 3-4 layers. I guarantee u 1-2 layers is not enough.
then getfitnib from day 1 to 14-17 days, 2x’s a day. It doesn’t get more simpler than that.

– this will start to kick back a lot of hairs back, even along the hairline.

It may not be the perfect answer but it is starting to show wonders for myself. You will see signs of progress in as little as 2 months. 3 months after, u will start to realize hat these new hairs will probably make it to terminal. While I’m anxiously waiting to see how it turns out, I know this can somehow work as a know nothing like myself has gone this far but there is a lot of work to improve on it. Where I should have hair is coming along and starting to look half-way decent, where there were no hairs (temples) is where it is still weak looking. I did nothing with the wnt issue except for the fact that I wounded my scalp pretty well. I think one person should inhibit wnt for XX days and another person should boost wnt from the get go. This should answer a lot of question for myself.