Can a HT give you your original hair density

Hair Transplant
21

Yeah, now this is getting into a question of theoretical versus practical.

I think it’s safe to say that transplanting to create virtually original density is possible. But it is practically achievable only if the total area of balding & transplantation on the guy’s entire head is very, very small.

Just going from NW#3 back to NW#1 at full 100% density would probably exhaust the patient’s donor hair supply for life right there.

22

» Listen, I am not going to debate the pros and cons of strip versus fue.
» Someone asked if it is possible to have the same original density as donor,
» everybody said no, I was the only one who correctly pointed out that it is
» possible.
»
» If you take out a strip that has for example 50 grafts per sq cm, you can
» put the same 50 grafts per sq cm to a bald area to retain the same density
» as the donor. There will be no effect on the donor because it is sutured
» closed. Voila, same density as donor.

Theoretically yes but I think there is a major flaw in your theory. You forgot to account for the fact that the entire donor in the back will be “stretched” when the gap is closed, hence less density overall after the procedure.

23

» » Listen, I am not going to debate the pros and cons of strip versus fue.
» » Someone asked if it is possible to have the same original density as
» donor,
» » everybody said no, I was the only one who correctly pointed out that it
» is
» » possible.
» »
» » If you take out a strip that has for example 50 grafts per sq cm, you
» can
» » put the same 50 grafts per sq cm to a bald area to retain the same
» density
» » as the donor. There will be no effect on the donor because it is
» sutured
» » closed. Voila, same density as donor.
»
» Theoretically yes but I think there is a major flaw in your theory. You
» forgot to account for the fact that the entire donor in the back will be
» “stretched” when the gap is closed, hence less density overall after the
» procedure.

Im sure like for like density is possible in a small area but forget it over a big area, you only have to see some of the armani dense packing on young guys to see; but what happens later?

24

» Listen, I am not going to debate the pros and cons of strip versus fue.
» Someone asked if it is possible to have the same original density as donor,
» everybody said no, I was the only one who correctly pointed out that it is
» possible.
»
» If you take out a strip that has for example 50 grafts per sq cm, you can
» put the same 50 grafts per sq cm to a bald area to retain the same density
» as the donor. There will be no effect on the donor because it is sutured
» closed. Voila, same density as donor.

wrong wrong wrong

you cannot take a skull , which is lets say for example sake, 100 cm2 and remove a huge chunk of grafts in the donor area, lets say 4000, and have the donor area density remain the same…no matter if you suture the area closed

the density on the overall head may remain somewhat the same since you just removed hairs from one area and placed them in another. and the area where the recipient site is, may have a high density, but the hair in the donor area, that density MUST decrease

Lets say you have a donor area with a total of 50,000 hairs, and you , just for example sake, remove half of those hairs…are you saying the density remains the same? just because you stiched the ends of the scalp together?

preposterous

25

» » Listen, I am not going to debate the pros and cons of strip versus fue.
» » Someone asked if it is possible to have the same original density as
» donor,
» » everybody said no, I was the only one who correctly pointed out that it
» is
» » possible.
» »
» » If you take out a strip that has for example 50 grafts per sq cm, you
» can
» » put the same 50 grafts per sq cm to a bald area to retain the same
» density
» » as the donor. There will be no effect on the donor because it is
» sutured
» » closed. Voila, same density as donor.
»
» wrong wrong wrong
»
» you cannot take a skull , which is lets say for example sake, 100 cm2 and
» remove a huge chunk of grafts in the donor area, lets say 4000, and have
» the donor area density remain the same…no matter if you suture the
» area closed
»
» the density on the overall head may remain somewhat the same since you
» just removed hairs from one area and placed them in another. and the area
» where the recipient site is, may have a high density, but the hair in the
» donor area, that density MUST decrease
»
» Lets say you have a donor area with a total of 50,000 hairs, and you ,
» just for example sake, remove half of those hairs…are you
» saying the density remains the same? just because you stiched the ends of
» the scalp together?
»
» preposterous

Hi,
Just to try to answer a couple of comments which I have read regarding my post. First off, someone said that in this case 1+1 was not equal to 1, and I say that he is under the assumption that the human body or system is completely linear. Not only this, I suspect that if you transplant lets say 3000 grafts, in theory you can have growth greater than 3000. This is not magic or miracle, its the human body. Why? Once you get an area with blood circulating, the cells are transplanted, and cardiovasculated, follicle growth takes off.
Think about it.

26

What “theory” would that be? Please explain your “theory”. If you have 3000 GRAFTS transplanted, you CANNOT EVER get more than 3000 GRAFTS. I think that you are confusing the term “graft” with “follicle”. If you had 3000 grafts transplanted, then yes, you most certaily should get more than 3000 hairs - otherwise, you got ripped off. The multiplier for grafts to hairs is about 2.3. 1000 grafts should yield about 2300 HAIRS.

Follicles are not generated (EVER) by transplantation. The number of follicles harvested from donor EQUALS the number of follicles in the recipient site after placement. The only direction that this number can go is DOWN (by loss of a graft due to injury, etc.)

There is no such thing as a “buy one, get one free” in hair transplantation. The number of grafts/hairs transplanted to the recipient sites is ALWAYS LESS THAN OR EQUAL TO the number of grafts/hairs harvested.

27

I will be happy if I got this result, figures be damned.

220_image28.gif921×623

Now, figure. Is this numbers of grafts or texture or what it looks like.
To me, it looks great. How do I get a similar result? That, if I were U, would be the question.

28

» What “theory” would that be? Please explain your “theory”. If you have 3000
» GRAFTS transplanted, you CANNOT EVER get
» more than 3000 GRAFTS. I think that you are confusing the term
» “graft” with “follicle”. If you had 3000 grafts transplanted, then yes, you
» most certaily should get more than 3000 hairs - otherwise, you got ripped
» off. The multiplier for grafts to hairs is about 2.3. 1000 grafts should
» yield about 2300 HAIRS.
»
» Follicles are not generated (EVER) by transplantation. The number of
» follicles harvested from donor EQUALS the number
» of follicles in the recipient site after placement. The only direction that
» this number can go is DOWN (by loss of a graft due to injury, etc.)
»
» There is no such thing as a “buy one, get one free” in hair
» transplantation. The number of grafts/hairs transplanted to the recipient
» sites is ALWAYS LESS THAN OR EQUAL TO the number of grafts/hairs
» harvested.

Jtel,
So from what you are saying, I take it that you mean that the hair or grafts that are transplanted stay on forever, in other words, they cannot follow a normal hair cycle. You know that daily theres a number of hairs that fall but new ones grow and hopefully less fall than grow for cases for people who dont bald.
What I am trying to say is that once the grafts are transplanted it takes life on its own, actually you also have hair cells been transplanted and whos to say that there is more than takes place than just simple math, or a linear process.
Dont be so sure about something which even to this date is not fully understood.

29

Unfortunately, one follicle transplanted ALWAYS EQUALS one follicle. That transplanted follicle may live (in most cases) or may die because of poor transplant techniques or injury. Of course these follicles produce hairs which cycle, because they are living organs just like they were in the donor area. It is also true that there may be a dormant follicle that has been transplanted along with active follicles in the same folicular unit which may seem to appear to come out of nowhere if/when it grows a hair shaft, but it does not. I don’t follow your logic here…

30

The transplanting follicles have to make the journey from donor-to-recipient skin fully intact or else they won’t grow. These issues are called “trasection” and “graft survival.”

Splitting follicles has been tried and it doesn’t really work. In the absolute best-case scenario, you end up with two smaller follicles that almost add up to as much hair shaft production as the original one you cut up. And the split follicle just dies entirely in the vast majority of the cases.

Like I said above – Your skull isn’t getting any smaller, and you’re not getting any more total hair follicles than you started with (probably a few less in total, actually).

So there are no great densities coming from HTs on very bald guys. Not with the available technology.

31

I will agree too…

But let me point another question. Let’s imagine that we have unlimited donor supply.
Can the current HT technology implant follicular units so close so we can obtain original density that is more than 80 follicular units per sq/cm2?

32

Absolutely. Assuming unlimited donor supply, the existing density could be achieved, but it would probably take multiple sessions.

33

» I will agree too…
»
» But let me point another question. Let’s imagine that we have unlimited
» donor supply.
» Can the current HT technology implant follicular units so close so we can
» obtain original density that is more than 80 follicular units per sq/cm2?

Actually Imor brings about an interesting issue,
I dont want to deflect the attention from my previous post but one time I spoke to a top dermatologist and he was trying to convince me that its hard to fit more than 20 grafts per cm2. He even took out a ruler and made a picture and asked how many hands would be needed since there is no room.

Regarding the splitting of hair follicles, I have heard that some top docs take out a graft that for instance has 4 hairs and split into 4. I dont want to give out a name, but Im sure you know how Im talking about…

Jtel,
So what you are saying is that the total number of hair follicles in the hair is fixed and doesnt change, or it cannot go up in number or down with age??
Lets go step by step…

34

»
» Regarding the splitting of hair follicles, I have heard that some top docs
» take out a graft that for instance has 4 hairs and split into 4. I dont
» want to give out a name, but Im sure you know how Im talking about…

The splitting of GRAFTS is a very common practice. This is worlds different than splitting a FOLLICE as was mentioned above. Dr. Gho attempted to split FOLLICLES and transplant the halves.

» Jtel,
» So what you are saying is that the total number of hair follicles in the
» hair is fixed and doesnt change, or it cannot go up in number or down with
» age??
» Lets go step by step…

I am sure that the number cannot (on its own) go up, but I am not so sure about going down in number. It is believed by some that follicles do not die, but become permanently dormant.

35

Let me help you out a little…
A graft is piece of skin containing more than one follicular unit.
A follicular unit may contain 1 to 4 hairs.

Nowadays they do not transplant grafts. They transplant follicular units, one by one, and place them where needed.
The density is measured in follicular units per sq. cm2.
I am not sure but I think I have seen up to 50 - 60 FU per sq. cm2 that will give you approximately 100 - 140 hairs per sq cm2 maximum (average 2.5 hairs per follicular unit).

My question was if the current HT tech could implant more than 80 FU per sq cm2 and get about 180 - 200 hairs. That would be original density…

36

» Let me help you out a little…
» A graft is piece of skin containing more than one follicular unit.
» A follicular unit may contain 1 to 4 hairs.
»
» Nowadays they do not transplant grafts. They transplant follicular units,
» one by one, and place them where needed.
» The density is measured in follicular units per sq. cm2.
» I am not sure but I think I have seen up to 50 - 60 FU per sq. cm2 that
» will give you approximately 100 - 140 hairs per sq cm2 maximum (average 2.5
» hairs per follicular unit).
»
» My question was if the current HT tech could implant more than 80 FU per
» sq cm2 and get about 180 - 200 hairs. That would beoriginal density…

imor, is this because you want this or curios?, i think it really depends on you and your hair in the first place what you need from a transplant. some lucky ba%^&ds can get great results without having to have high density, just depends.

37

Even if the donor supply was endless it would be impossible to replicate the natural alignment of the hair from birth, you would need to have like special robots or something working there, i doubt a human or humans would be able to the extremelly precise and condensed type of work that would be required.

» » Let me help you out a little…
» » A graft is piece of skin containing more than one follicular unit.
» » A follicular unit may contain 1 to 4 hairs.
» »
» » Nowadays they do not transplant grafts. They transplant follicular
» units,
» » one by one, and place them where needed.
» » The density is measured in follicular units per sq. cm2.
» » I am not sure but I think I have seen up to 50 - 60 FU per sq. cm2 that
» » will give you approximately 100 - 140 hairs per sq cm2 maximum (average
» 2.5
» » hairs per follicular unit).
» »
» » My question was if the current HT tech could implant more than 80 FU
» per
» » sq cm2 and get about 180 - 200 hairs. That would beoriginal density…
»
» imor, is this because you want this or curios?, i think it really depends
» on you and your hair in the first place what you need from a transplant.
» some lucky ba%^&ds can get great results without having to have high
» density, just depends.