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Bimatoprost or latanoprost will never be that great at growing hair


#1

People shouldn’t get their hopes up AT ALL about these two drugs, or anything in their class.

They are essentially SMOOTH MUSCLE RELAXANTS, parasympathomimetic drugs which will only ever serve as very weak hair growth treatments and will have probably substantial, unpleasant and even perhaps dangerous (although not deadly) side effects when absorbed into the body in anything approaching doses where they could really grow a lot of hair.

So, the takeaway is:

  1. Not spectacular hair growth agents; keep your pants on and don’t get your hopes up!

  2. To increase hair growth potential you also have to increase dosage by using a lot or using a high concentration mixture. But this will result in a lot of unwanted and bad side effects.

  3. The reason for #2 is that when absorbed into the scalp skin the substance then enters the systemic circulation and circulates through the entire body. So, for instance, the more you increase dosage you might get nausea, diarrhea, extreme photosensitivity, etc.

  4. No real sense bothering with these drugs when there are much better things coming down the pike like PGD2 antagonists.

  5. Latanoprost and bimatoprost will never be decent hair loss cures. Anyone who thinks these drugs are anything like a real answer to hairloss is really confused. I appreciate jarjarbinx’s interest in investigating something “new”, but he will be seriously disappointed. People WILL SEE that using these drugs is not worth it and won’t produce much hair. Hear me now, believe me later!!


#2

0.1% Latanopros resulted in 22% more hair and that is decent results. It is way W-A-Y better than minoxidil. It is way better than Acell with or without PRP. It is better than propecia. It is better than anything else on the market right now. The thing is that these two drugs (bimatoprost and latanoprost) work in a way that may give a boost to PGD2 antagonists so I think it’s probably a good idea to use them together with a PGD2 antagonist.

Now I agree that the PGD2 antagonist would likely be the cornerstone of the combined treatment but I think that at least one of the other two, bimatoprost and/or latanoprost, would be a good compliment to the PGD2 antagonist.

And aside from the recent solid study results with latanoprost there is also the issue that allergan is pursuing bimatoprost right now. Now I admit that they haven’t proceeded to phase 3 but if they do proceed to phase 3 then that would be a good sign that bimatoprost (at the right dose) is more effective than propecia or minoxidil.


#3

» 0.1% Latanopros resulted in 22% more hair and that is decent results. It
» is way W-A-Y better than minoxidil.

I’m not aware of any human studies or clinical trials where latanoprost or bimatoprost has been proven to grow hair on human SCALPS.

If you’re talking about tests or trials where latanoprost grew extra hair in eyelashes or eyebrows, it’s not the same as growing hair on the scalp, because the receptors are different and the signaling for hair growth is different, hair on the eyelashes and eyebrows also isn’t affected by MPB.

In order to prove the efficacy of latanoprost or bimatoprost for hair growth to counter MPB, we have to have trials:

  1. In HUMANS, not animals like the macaque monkey…
  1. On human SCALPS, not eyelashes or any other part of the body

Can you cite where, when, who did these trials that showed 22% growth?

Even if it was on a human scalp, I find it a little dubious, because the known mechanism of latanoprost is pretty much exactly the same mechanism of Minoxidil, which is to relax smooth muscles in micro-capillaries.

Of course, minoxidil and latanoprost are really two different drugs and not chemically related (latanoprost is a prostaglandin analog while minoxidil isn’t), but they have pretty much the same mechanisms of action, and that is why I think they’re essentially doing the exact same thing and growing hair in the exact same way.

If so, latanoprost is just prolonging the growth phase of the follicle (as Ahab said), not really growing new hair or regenerating any follicles permanently by truly reversing miniaturization.

So in other words, it’s just like minoxidil. It may be a little stronger than minoxidil, but so what? The only reason we can’t use very high dosage minoxidil is the SIDE EFFECTS. We’d all grow lots of hair, probably very low quality hair too, but we’d also probably die of hypotension or anaphylaxis or something! :stuck_out_tongue: In fact, that principle is essentially the same with ANY DRUG for ANY PURPOSE. It’s always a battle between efficacy and side effects.

My point is that ANY drug which has the same mode of action of minoxidil – vasodilation – is doomed to being a more-or-less “second rate” solution to hair loss. It’s not really reversing the miniaturization process, as PGD2 might actually do. It’s just prolonging the growth phase of hairs that were recently miniaturized, and it doesn’t even really do a full or complete job of that… and ultimately it’ll just produce a bunch of worthless crappy vellus hairs like I got when I used minoxidil.


#4

Check out these two links:

http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/hairtransplantblog/study-latanoprost-might-be-a-viable-hair-loss-medication/

If you increase the diameter of your individual hairs by 22% it would have the same cosmetic effect as getting 22% new hairs. The issue is coverage. If the diameters of the hairs over your entire scalp increased 22% the change would be cosmetically visible to the naked eye. 22% more volume could improve your overall appearance in general.

Also, if latanoprost pushes your longer hair into the growing phase perhaps it also pushes the tiny hairs (that have shrunk down to near-invisibility) into the growing phase. I can’t think of a reason why not although it was not proven in the study that the tiny hairs were "activated) by the latanoprost. Still, if the study had been a year instead of 6 months perhaps there would be improvement of those tiny hairs too. Remember minoxidil studies are like 10 months or a year.

Also, I am not suggesting we should use latanprost/bimatoprost by itself. I am suggesting that we should use in combination with PGD2 antagonist. A PGD2 antagonist would remove the thing that prevents hair growth (PGD2) and latanoprost/bimatoprost would increase the thing that causes hair growth. A PGD2 antagonist combined with latanoprost/bimatoprost would compliment each other.


#5

Roger_that, Allergan may not release its’ bimatoprost results until they complete their studies and they have a product on the market. If you wait till then to try to get latanoprost/bimatoprost then you will kick yourself in the arse if the Allergan results eventually prove to be great. My point is that we already have enough evidence to conclude that there is a likelihood that latanoprost/bimatoprost is beneficial. And the point to this entire site is to put our heads together to try to get treatments early rather than waiting for those treatments to hit the general market. If we intend to just wait till Allergan’s final study results then there is really no point to even coming to this site or for this site to even exist. We are the supposedly “early birds” who want action NOW and are willing to act early.

The thing here is that the study I linked for you today shows that there is increased hair volume with latanoprost so I really think we should start putting our heads together to try to figure out a way to get it at 0.1% and we should also be trying to get a PGD2 antagonist to combine with the latanoprost/bimatoprost.

Certainly after September if Allergan moves to phase 3 that will definitely add more proof because Allergan is comparing their bimatoprost (scalp hair treatment) to rogaine. So if they continue to phase 3 then it’s pretty clear that they are getting better results than rogain. Why would you want to wait for the treatment to come to market if Allergan moves to phase 3 when we could instead put our heads together and figure out a way to get this stuff early now???


#6

» People shouldn’t get their hopes up AT ALL about these two drugs, or
» anything in their class.
»
» They are essentially SMOOTH MUSCLE RELAXANTS, parasympathomimetic drugs
» which will only ever serve as very weak hair growth treatments and will
» have probably substantial, unpleasant and even perhaps dangerous (although
» not deadly) side effects when absorbed into the body in anything
» approaching doses where they could really grow a lot of hair.
»
» So, the takeaway is:
»
» 1) Not spectacular hair growth agents; keep your pants on and don’t get
» your hopes up!
»
» 2) To increase hair growth potential you also have to increase dosage by
» using a lot or using a high concentration mixture. But this will result
» in a lot of unwanted and bad side effects.
»
» 3) The reason for #2 is that when absorbed into the scalp skin the
» substance then enters the systemic circulation and circulates through the
» entire body. So, for instance, the more you increase dosage you might get
» nausea, diarrhea, extreme photosensitivity, etc.
»
» 4) No real sense bothering with these drugs when there are much better
» things coming down the pike like PGD2 antagonists.
»
» 5) Latanoprost and bimatoprost will never be decent hair loss cures.
» Anyone who thinks these drugs are anything like a real answer to hairloss
» is really confused. I appreciate jarjarbinx’s interest in investigating
» something “new”, but he will be seriously disappointed. People WILL SEE
» that using these drugs is not worth it and won’t produce much hair.

» Hear me now, believe me later!!

you are correct. I tried this already, did nothing for me.


#7

» » People shouldn’t get their hopes up AT ALL about these two drugs, or
» » anything in their class.
» »
» » They are essentially SMOOTH MUSCLE RELAXANTS, parasympathomimetic drugs
» » which will only ever serve as very weak hair growth treatments and will
» » have probably substantial, unpleasant and even perhaps dangerous
» (although
» » not deadly) side effects when absorbed into the body in anything
» » approaching doses where they could really grow a lot of hair.
» »
» » So, the takeaway is:
» »
» » 1) Not spectacular hair growth agents; keep your pants on and don’t get
» » your hopes up!
» »
» » 2) To increase hair growth potential you also have to increase dosage by
» » using a lot or using a high concentration mixture. But this will
» result
» » in a lot of unwanted and bad side effects.
» »
» » 3) The reason for #2 is that when absorbed into the scalp skin the
» » substance then enters the systemic circulation and circulates through
» the
» » entire body. So, for instance, the more you increase dosage you might
» get
» » nausea, diarrhea, extreme photosensitivity, etc.
» »
» » 4) No real sense bothering with these drugs when there are much better
» » things coming down the pike like PGD2 antagonists.
» »
» » 5) Latanoprost and bimatoprost will never be decent hair loss cures.
» » Anyone who thinks these drugs are anything like a real answer to
» hairloss
» » is really confused. I appreciate jarjarbinx’s interest in investigating
» » something “new”, but he will be seriously disappointed. People WILL
» SEE
» » that using these drugs is not worth it and won’t produce much hair.

» » Hear me now, believe me later!!
»
» you are correct. I tried this already, did nothing for me.

What exactly did you try? What medicine? Was it latanoprost or bimatoprost? What dose did you use? What did you mix it with - what are all the ingredients you put into your treatment and what amount of each ingredient? Where did you get the treatment from?

I’m asking all of these questions because I think you probably did your experiment wrong.


#8

» » » People shouldn’t get their hopes up AT ALL about these two drugs, or
» » » anything in their class.
» » »
» » » They are essentially SMOOTH MUSCLE RELAXANTS, parasympathomimetic
» drugs
» » » which will only ever serve as very weak hair growth treatments and
» will
» » » have probably substantial, unpleasant and even perhaps dangerous
» » (although
» » » not deadly) side effects when absorbed into the body in anything
» » » approaching doses where they could really grow a lot of hair.
» » »
» » » So, the takeaway is:
» » »
» » » 1) Not spectacular hair growth agents; keep your pants on and don’t
» get
» » » your hopes up!
» » »
» » » 2) To increase hair growth potential you also have to increase dosage
» by
» » » using a lot or using a high concentration mixture. But this will
» » result
» » » in a lot of unwanted and bad side effects.
» » »
» » » 3) The reason for #2 is that when absorbed into the scalp skin the
» » » substance then enters the systemic circulation and circulates through
» » the
» » » entire body. So, for instance, the more you increase dosage you might
» » get
» » » nausea, diarrhea, extreme photosensitivity, etc.
» » »
» » » 4) No real sense bothering with these drugs when there are much better
» » » things coming down the pike like PGD2 antagonists.
» » »
» » » 5) Latanoprost and bimatoprost will never be decent hair loss cures.
» » » Anyone who thinks these drugs are anything like a real answer to
» » hairloss
» » » is really confused. I appreciate jarjarbinx’s interest in
» investigating
» » » something “new”, but he will be seriously disappointed. People
» WILL
» » SEE
» » » that using these drugs is not worth it and won’t produce much hair.

»
» » » Hear me now, believe me later!!
» »
» » you are correct. I tried this already, did nothing for me.
»
»
»
»
» What exactly did you try? What medicine? Was it latanoprost or bimatoprost?
» What dose did you use? What did you mix it with - what are all the
» ingredients you put into your treatment and what amount of each ingredient?
» Where did you get the treatment from?
»
» I’m asking all of these questions because I think you probably did your
» experiment wrong.

You are probably right, I wasn’t very precise with my experiment. I used latanoprost (supposed to be for eye but i used it for my hair), I did not mix it with anything, forgot what dose but it was a long time ago and it was expensive like hell, stuck with it for about 2 months, saw no difference whatsoever, couldn’t afford it anymore so I stopped.


#9

» » » » People shouldn’t get their hopes up AT ALL about these two drugs, or
» » » » anything in their class.
» » » »
» » » » They are essentially SMOOTH MUSCLE RELAXANTS, parasympathomimetic
» » drugs
» » » » which will only ever serve as very weak hair growth treatments and
» » will
» » » » have probably substantial, unpleasant and even perhaps dangerous
» » » (although
» » » » not deadly) side effects when absorbed into the body in anything
» » » » approaching doses where they could really grow a lot of hair.
» » » »
» » » » So, the takeaway is:
» » » »
» » » » 1) Not spectacular hair growth agents; keep your pants on and don’t
» » get
» » » » your hopes up!
» » » »
» » » » 2) To increase hair growth potential you also have to increase
» dosage
» » by
» » » » using a lot or using a high concentration mixture. But this will
» » » result
» » » » in a lot of unwanted and bad side effects.
» » » »
» » » » 3) The reason for #2 is that when absorbed into the scalp skin the
» » » » substance then enters the systemic circulation and circulates
» through
» » » the
» » » » entire body. So, for instance, the more you increase dosage you
» might
» » » get
» » » » nausea, diarrhea, extreme photosensitivity, etc.
» » » »
» » » » 4) No real sense bothering with these drugs when there are much
» better
» » » » things coming down the pike like PGD2 antagonists.
» » » »
» » » » 5) Latanoprost and bimatoprost will never be decent hair loss cures.
»
» » » » Anyone who thinks these drugs are anything like a real answer to
» » » hairloss
» » » » is really confused. I appreciate jarjarbinx’s interest in
» » investigating
» » » » something “new”, but he will be seriously disappointed. People
» » WILL
» » » SEE
» » » » that using these drugs is not worth it and won’t produce much
» hair.

» »
» » » » Hear me now, believe me later!!
» » »
» » » you are correct. I tried this already, did nothing for me.
» »
» »
» »
» »
» » What exactly did you try? What medicine? Was it latanoprost or
» bimatoprost?
» » What dose did you use? What did you mix it with - what are all the
» » ingredients you put into your treatment and what amount of each
» ingredient?
» » Where did you get the treatment from?
» »
» » I’m asking all of these questions because I think you probably did your
» » experiment wrong.
»
» You are probably right, I wasn’t very precise with my experiment. I used
» latanoprost (supposed to be for eye but i used it for my hair), I did not
» mix it with anything, forgot what dose but it was a long time ago and it
» was expensive like hell, stuck with it for about 2 months, saw no
» difference whatsoever, couldn’t afford it anymore so I stopped.

Firstly, when you say you weren’t very precise I figure that means you didn’t always use the medicine every day like you were supposed to or you didn’t use the right amount each time you used it.

  1. You used the standard eye dose which is way less than the dose 0.1% which is the necessary dose. I think the standard eye dose is like 0.005% which is way less than the correct 0.1% dose needed for hair growth.

  2. You quit after 2 months but it takes 6 months to see results with latanoprost (at 0.1% dose which is way higher dose than what you used) so you didn’t git it long enough since you only used it two months.

You’re experience with this medicine doesn’t tell us anything.


#10

» People shouldn’t get their hopes up AT ALL about these two drugs, or
» anything in their class.
»
» They are essentially SMOOTH MUSCLE RELAXANTS, parasympathomimetic drugs
» which will only ever serve as very weak hair growth treatments and will
» have probably substantial, unpleasant and even perhaps dangerous (although
» not deadly) side effects when absorbed into the body in anything
» approaching doses where they could really grow a lot of hair.
»
» So, the takeaway is:
»
» 1) Not spectacular hair growth agents; keep your pants on and don’t get
» your hopes up!
»
» 2) To increase hair growth potential you also have to increase dosage by
» using a lot or using a high concentration mixture. But this will result
» in a lot of unwanted and bad side effects.
»
» 3) The reason for #2 is that when absorbed into the scalp skin the
» substance then enters the systemic circulation and circulates through the
» entire body. So, for instance, the more you increase dosage you might get
» nausea, diarrhea, extreme photosensitivity, etc.
»
» 4) No real sense bothering with these drugs when there are much better
» things coming down the pike like PGD2 antagonists.
»
» 5) Latanoprost and bimatoprost will never be decent hair loss cures.
» Anyone who thinks these drugs are anything like a real answer to hairloss
» is really confused. I appreciate jarjarbinx’s interest in investigating
» something “new”, but he will be seriously disappointed. People WILL SEE
» that using these drugs is not worth it and won’t produce much hair.

» Hear me now, believe me later!!

I’m starting to hear good rumors about the allergan bimatoprost scalp studies. I’m hearing that it’s better by far than what we already have avail. I’m looking forward to it coming to market. I’m also hearing that doctors and compounding pharmacies are asking the FDA for permission to get the pure powder and turn it into a topical for use while waiting for FDA approval of the Allergan version.

Is anyone else hearing this stuff?


#11

just wondering where your hearing this? i can tell you im on a bit over 3 months using it everyday in one temple area and its definately working and making some of the hair darker and thicker. It still hasnt blown me away with the results but its working i would say good enough to continue. This is with the 0.1 drops so its obviously not strong enough either so a higher dose should do pretty well. anyway i just bought 6 more bottles and will continue on. Anyone thinking of using the drops should expect to really commit to it as it seems to take months for noticable results. Very looking forward to allergans results.


#12

» just wondering where your hearing this? i can tell you im on a bit over 3
» months using it everyday in one temple area and its definately working and
» making some of the hair darker and thicker. It still hasnt blown me away
» with the results but its working i would say good enough to continue. This
» is with the 0.1 drops so its obviously not strong enough either so a higher
» dose should do pretty well. anyway i just bought 6 more bottles and will
» continue on. Anyone thinking of using the drops should expect to really
» commit to it as it seems to take months for noticable results. Very looking
» forward to allergans results.

I have been searching the internet a lot lately and I did call around to a few study sites and I think that we are going to get some good news about bimatoprost at higher doses for scalp hair loss. I can’t remember every little morsel I read or heard, or where I read it or heard it, but I can say that I’m convinced that we are going to get good news about bimatoprost soon. From what I’m gathering it is not a silver bullet but it is going to be a pleasant surprise. And it’s my understanding that doctors/pharmacies are already asking the FDA to allow them to secure the legal pure bimatoprost powder and formulate it into a high dose topical like the one allergan is experimenting with while we wait for Allergan to bring their treatment to market. I have this from a handful of souces and here is one of those sources:

It’s an interview by Spencer Kobren with Dr Ziering about Histogen. The first hour is just talk between one of Kobren’s long time associates (Joe) and Kobren and the 2nd hour is an interview with Ziering. In the first hour when Kobren is talking to “Joe” bimatoprost (Latisse) comes up and “Joe” and Kobren talk about how it’s proving to be pretty good in trials and how doctors are already talking to the FDA to try to secure the OK to start selling a generic version of high dose bimatoprost now for patients to use while we wait for Allergan’s version to hit the market. Listen to the first hour of the interview and it’s near the end of the first hour when Latisse comes up. Keep in mind that Latisse is bimatoprost and the dose for the scalp would be higher than the dose for the eyelashes. I have seen other stuff on the internet about the results from phase 2 and I spoke with some staff at a study site and I like what I’m hearing. I’m satisfied that balding people are in for a pleasant surprise. No, it’s not the silver bullet, yes it’s growing more hair than what we have available already. And if we combine it with the stuff that’s already avail we could see even better results.


#13

Hi, I just found this thread while doing research on the ingredients in the program I am using. What I’m using does include latanoprost (among other ingredients) and it is definitely working for me.


#14

@jarjarbinx I’ve been saying this for a long time about these drugs. Bitamaprost and latanoprost are very weak, and have some bad side effects.

Also, someone floated a new theory on another forum recently about PGD2. The theory makes sense. Basically he’s saying that the elevated PGD2 that Dr. Cotsarelis found in balding skin is a secondary response to the loss of lactate in the hair follicle stem cells. (The poster added a detailed argument about the biochemical pathways involved, which makes sense.)

So, according to this theory, no matter what you to PGD2 levels, it won’t grow hair. Looks like PGD2 may have been a false lead.

On the other hand, this same poster says that increasing PGE2 could still grow some hair (which is where bitamaprost/latanoprost comes in.) But still, I’d rather address the lactate deficiency and see what happens. Lactate may well be THE root of the whole problem.