Home | News | Find a Doctor | Ask a Question | Free

Benji


#1

You have been on this board longer than anyone. You have seen every Doctor/clinic FAIL. In all your time here no one has come close to cracking the hair loss puzzle. If all you have is baldness in your temple area why don’t you just get FUE & be done with it? You have said before that there are good doctors on the HTP forum (which I don’t agree with) so why don’t you have FUE & just be done with it? HTP are only suitable for people with minor hair regression which is what you have. Why waste your time with this b.s day after day?
A freak like me has no choice but to be here because conventional methods cannot bring me back to life. Why are you here when a solution for your hair loss is at hand?
I am not picking a fight with you. I would just like to know what is stopping you from having FUE & moving on with your life ?


#2

Perhaps the imperfect HT results at best, the $15,000+ cost, and the unknown hair loss in the future are playing into his decision.


#3

» You have been on this board longer than anyone. You have seen every
» Doctor/clinic FAIL. In all your time here no one has come close to cracking
» the hair loss puzzle. If all you have is baldness in your temple area why
» don’t you just get FUE & be done with it? You have said before that there
» are good doctors on the HTP forum (which I don’t agree with) so why don’t
» you have FUE & just be done with it? HTP are only suitable for people with
» minor hair regression which is what you have. Why waste your time with this
» b.s day after day?
» A freak like me has no choice but to be here because conventional methods
» cannot bring me back to life. Why are you here when a solution for your
» hair loss is at hand?
» I am not picking a fight with you. I would just like to know what is
» stopping you from having FUE & moving on with your life ?

The follica and ACELL methodologies are very suprising to me. They have a lot of evidence going for them that Im not going to get into here. I was “led along” like many on this site throughout the 00’s by “big talk”, primarily by HM researchers themsevles. They have all proved to be way over-optimistic and a couple of researchers (in my opinion) intentionally so. I still have hope for HM, which would have been the bomb and still could be someday, but its a few years out there yet and things have to be worked on to make it work in vivo. Tissue scaffolds to grow proto-hairs in are probably going to be required. Aderans is working in that direction now. Many on this board, like James Bond, JTR, and myself, used to be pretty confident HM would be here by about now. In fact…I had thought back in 2002 that it would have been available by 2007-2008. I thought it was worth waiting a couple of extra years to get “a home run”. Well, HM is going to take longer than that obviously.

As we waited for the big phase two ICX trial (that dissapointed us all except the virtually blind Nathan), news of Follica and ACELL came to our attention. These two new methodologies have a lot backing them. Im not going to go into lengthly detail but all of us on these boards have been told stories of men who had strange hair growth after wounds to previously bald scalp (even lightning strikes to bald heads). When I found out that experimental animals had shown this since the fifties and Kligman claimed he’d seen de noveau hair growth on some acne dermabrasion patients, along with those two strange getfitinib hair growth photos in long-bald scalp and terminal hair growth on someone’s nose…my eyes perked up, and I decided to look into this a little harder.

I’d like to know a little more, hell Ive waited this long. If I could go back, I’d have FUE’d several years ago (about 2002). Many of us felt HM was just around the corner, but were “led on” in my opinion by statements made by folks researching it. HM may very well become a reality…several years down the line. Ive been living life and enjoying myself in the meantime however. Ive sport-dated (if you know what I mean) the past few years and have a little something going on the side. Its not like Im starving or anything. :slight_smile: My appearance outwardly is alrighty. I wear my hair in bangs, and the few (about 90) micros and minis that I do have are well concealed in this way. Ive held the line with finas, niz, prox-n for many years now. But the temples haven’t (and wont) come back. We will know about Follica fairly soon now and if it can work in the MPB area (Im practically certain it will work back in the donor area or on the body—I’d almost bet my house on that). If TAG, Cal, me, a few of the guys at HLT all get nada…it may look more iffy, but the getfitinib regrowth photo on the one man’s head makes me very optimistic. He wasn’t on cyclosporin or anything, and still grew new hair right in the middle of long-bald scalp. I have a hard time believing that is regenerated hair. I think its de noveau hair growth.


#4

As for the donor/bald skin issues, I think that even if long-balded skin proves to have been altered enough by MPB not to work right with Folica’s method, then a thin “dusting” of conventional HT grafts over the area should make the skin revert enough to make it work again.

HT clinics sometimes need to space the coverage out to two sessions instead of one to give long-balded skin some time to revert, but it’s not ultimately a problem making the balded skin support dense HT grafting period. They say the skin basically regains the blood supply & thickness that it lost when grafts are put into it.

As I’ve said on other threads, my home-brewed try at the Folica method should leave no possibility of failure except fake pills. So if I don’t have something growing in a month, then I’m gonna get pretty doubtful about Folica’s method. I’m not aiming for ideal growth this time, I just want the million-dollar question answered as surely as possible.


#5

» So if I don’t
» have something growing in a month, then I’m gonna get pretty doubtful about
» Folica’s method. I’m not aiming for ideal growth this time, I just want
» the million-dollar question answered as surely as possible.

You’ve got to be kidding Cal. Don’t you think Follica is a little smarter than we all gave them credit for? Hell they know the protocol to make their product work doesn’t cost that much but they also know that its a tricky technique and hence the reason for the ambiguous patent and the extra time they are using right now. If you think you can come up with a home brew that is going to replicate what they are doing, I think you’re fooling yourself. But good luck anyways.


#6

Cal, don’t get me wrong, I hope you will manage! But MPB is right. Mr Cotsarelis has dedicated his life for this, I saw articles about hairloss and skin disorders from him written 20 years ago. He also workes with 4 other heavy weight educated doctors. I think there are more thing to their procedure which we don’t know. There must be other things, otherwise other smart educated people in this field would have solved this problem.

I also think Follica is doing some trials at this moment, end this year we will have more news about it.


#7

I hear you all.

But let me put it this way:

  1. In the whole area I tested, NONE of the wounding was anywhere within range of the correct depth. (Even though I did it by hand with sandpaper, and there will probably be everything from blood-drawing to untouched skin to look at.)

  2. My drug (which is listed in the patents as being effective) is not the same as what they’re using.

  3. One of Folica’s most basic (and also most direct to the principle theory) patents is covering a procedure that does not work at all.

If I don’t grow something, not ANYTHING AT ALL, then realistically you have to pick one of these three options to explain it.


#8

» Cal, don’t get me wrong, I hope you will manage! But MPB is right. Mr
» Cotsarelis has dedicated his life for this, I saw articles about hairloss
» and skin disorders from him written 20 years ago. No, actually he hasn’t dedicated his whole life to this. It isn’t even “his” discovery. He wanted to retry experiments that showed de noveau hairgrowth in animals that were done in the 1950’s. If it wasn’t for a jerk-off named William Straile, who wrote a paper dismissing the findings of two different researchers who seen de noveau hair growth in animals way back when, we might have had this by the 1970s. Kligman’s noting of de noveau hair formation in acne dermabrasion patients in the 1970s also probably heavily influenced the initiation of those experiments. Cotsarialis used to be in HM research (cultivated cells from donor-area follicles), but like Jerry Cooley, gave up (HM is apparently going to be much harder to bring to fruition than first thought, possibly even necessitating incubating tissue matrixes for hair cells to become ‘proto-hairs’ before implantation). Id have to check, but wasn’t Cotsarialis a hair transplant surgeon for a while? Make no mistake, when they abraded those first mice’s skin, they were looking for de noveau hairgrowth. They knew what they were looking for—and it was based on fifty year old research. So in essence what Im saying isn’t pleasant to hear. They are wanting to take credit for something that was discovered years ago, but has had a lid on it ever since.

He also workes with 4
» other heavy weight educated doctors. I think there are more thing to their
» procedure which we don’t know. Not unless they are lying in their patent. Cyclosporin, something to suppress the human immune system is a possiblility, but why would have we seen two photos of hair growth on getfitinib pateints in long-bald frontal scalp, and terminal dark-beard-like hairgrowth on the nose of someone with it? Its almost certainly de noveau hairgrowth in response to a sunburn in both cases. They didn’t need to supress their immune systems.

There must be other things, otherwise other
» smart educated people in this field would have solved this problem. This is where you are quite wrong. There aren’t many other people in this field, period. HM has been researched in earnest since about 2002 (Im sorry but Bazan and Gho were single men trying to cut dermal papillas in two and hope both halfs would have enough stem cell material to make hairs when re-implanted-----very ‘manual’). Aderans came along and was very optimsitic, and Intercytex came along and was very optimistic, they cultivated dermal papilla cells along with other inductive cells from donor area hair follicles and re-implanted them in balding scalp. Their results? 13% to 103% increases in hair follicles in balding areas (ICX phase 2). That isn’t a home run and we both know it. Its very possible that MPB scalp, being thinner, having suffered years of immunological events, having less vascularization, having lost a water layer and fatty acids that hirsute scalp has, might be a big obstacle in these hair cells getting the impetus they need to formulate big-new-donor-quality hairs in great number. It might be that Aderans is right and is on the right path by attempting to make tissue matrices that proto-hairs can be grown in out of one’s hair cells for re-implantation as more differentiated dermal units. My old idea, which was to shoot up one’s thighs after hair removal with the cells and see if any of them grew in this area with normal skin, would still be the best way to see if this will go in a human being. The hairs could have been FUE’ed back out and moved to the head if they grew. It would have only taken one volunteer to assess that. It looks like we will be waiting several years (10?) for HM from cell-injections to become a reality.Its a shame, it would have been the best procedure providing the best-donor quality hair IMO. »

» I also think Follica is doing some trials at this moment, end this year we
» will have more news about it. They have backed off their earlier very optimistic projections and now have pretty much clammed up. We have discussed on this board what in the world would be holding them up, and some of us have come to the conclusion that delivering the EGF-antagonists topically and forumlating topicals that can do that without systemic absorption is something that they are probably working on. They grew human hair on human skin in one experiment with abrasion alone…and no other adjuvants added.

I have a weird hair on my left temple that has been there for about ten years where I walked into a sharp corner. A hair grew from it. Its there, it has to be trimmed. It only grows about 2/3 to 3/4 of an inch, but its a half inch away from my eyebrows (dark). Its part dark-blond, part brown (like my hair). It curls slightly (like my head hair). Ive always wondered about that hair and why-in-the-phuck it formed. After reading severeal ancedotal reports on hair loss discussion forums over the years, Ive found that there have been men with weird hair growth after car-wrecks on bald scalp, a couple of lightening strike victims have claimed weird hair growth, a guy who needled minoxidil claimed much better growth of terminal hair growth than with minox alone years ago on HLH, and a guy who claimed his dad used razors to cut his vertex bald spot and sprinkled garlic on them (lithium is in garlic) had unusually good growth in that bald spot. All of these together, especially since the getfitinib photos and Kligman’s claim of hair growth in some acne dermabrasion patinets and the “news” that animals make hair in resonse to wounds, and the one car wreck victim I seen personally at a video store years ago with very strong hair growth in an obviously bad head wound (he was really screwed up with a large dent in his skull that was a few inches across and few inches deep)…obviously set me to wondering.

Instead of waiting how ever many years it takes follica to trial this, get it though whatever regulatory hoop, and get it “for sale” in derms offices…a few of us who want to know, are willing to test it on ourselves. If I even see a few hairs—I’ll know Follica is money, will probably get an FUE and just wait my sweet time for Follica to come out with a perfected procedure. I hope I get a whole lot more than that, but realize the anti-microbails, anti-inflammatories, retinoids, NO agonsits, potassium channel openers might induce much more hair that what I’ll probably get. I accept that.


#9

What is sport-dated? one night stand?


#10

» What is sport-dated? one night stand?

we have all (or most of us) cultivated a few “friends with benefits” situations over the years…

as you get older, you’ll find some divorcee’s in particular aren’t looking for any new marriage or fluffy romantic entanglement but still like to have a bit of fun once or twice a week…Ive got a ‘friend’ like that now. Cant really call it ‘dating’ per se (I mean who in the hell can conclude ordering a pizza, renting a movie, and half-an-hour of :slight_smile: as a real date). Sport dating is a euphemism that would seem to apply.

After the resolution of my little dilemma, I’ll probably re-enter the ‘dating’ world again, even though I sure have enjoyed being unattached these past few years. Nobody griping at me, nobody to “get away” from, no one asking why I cant buy her this or that, nobody’s mother to go visit, nobody’s hackneyed political opinions to listen to, nobody’s office gossip to “be a good listener for”, so many less shopping trips to go on. Why do we get married again? Oh, that:http://youtube.com/watch?v=jRivktuvVkU&feature=related
Now I remember.


#11

» » What is sport-dated? one night stand?
»
»
» we have all (or most of us) cultivated a few “friends with benefits”
» situations over the years…
»
» as you get older, you’ll find some divorcee’s in particular aren’t looking
» for any new marriage or fluffy romantic entanglement but still like to have
» a bit of fun once or twice a week…Ive got a ‘friend’ like that now.
» Cant really call it ‘dating’ per se (I mean who in the hell can conclude
» ordering a pizza, renting a movie, and half-an-hour of :slight_smile: as a real date).
» Sport dating is a euphemism that would seem to apply.
»
»
» After the resolution of my little dilemma, I’ll probably re-enter the
» ‘dating’ world again, even though I sure have enjoyed being unattached
» these past few years. Nobody griping at me, nobody to “get away” from, no
» one asking why I cant buy her this or that, nobody’s mother to go visit,
» nobody’s hackneyed political opinions to listen to, nobody’s office gossip
» to “be a good listener for”, so many less shopping trips to go on. Why
» do we get married again? Oh,
» that:http://youtube.com/watch?v=jRivktuvVkU&feature=related
» Now I remember.

geez, must be a term for people in their 40s, like hanging


#12

Benji, you can’t categorically say that the getfitinib guy regrew hair because of a combination of sunburn and the drug. We don’t know that for a fact.

There is a possibility that its just a rare side affect and not induced by any kind of wounding at all.


#13

» Benji, you can’t categorically say that the getfitinib guy regrew hair
» because of a combination of sunburn and the drug. We don’t know that for a
» fact.
»
» There is a possibility that its just a rare side affect and not induced by
» any kind of wounding at all.

On someone’s nose.??? That strong, out of thousands? Despite its mentioned in a hairgrowth patent for usage post-reepilithialization? On the middle of a bald man’s head that had been bald for many years beforehand?

Kinda extraneous logic dont you think?

Hey, we will know before too much longer. If me, Cal, and TAGOHL all come up with nada…then I probably wont be on the forum hardly ever anymore. This is really the “last” best chance for a good while. We cant’ “test” ACELL at home. That will either come out or it wont.


#14

I know it appears like a massive coincidence, your probably right though.

I’m just having a hard time getting my head around it, to me it seems to good to be true if a person got sunburned, took getfitinib and grew a sh!t load of hair.

Also if you guys come up with nothing, I still strongly believe that Follica will still be in with a chance.


#15

» Benji, you can’t categorically say that the getfitinib guy regrew hair
» because of a combination of sunburn and the drug. We don’t know that for a
» fact.

I thought nobody was going to say it, even when it’s so evident, but in this forum sometimes speculation becomes true if repeated several times.


#16

» Hey, we will know before too much longer. If me, Cal, and TAGOHL all come
» up with nada…then I probably wont be on the forum hardly
» ever anymore. This is really the “last” best chance for a good while. We
» cant’ “test” ACELL at home. That will either come out or it wont.

are you guys trying the same procedure? if yes, wouldn’t it be better if you tried variations of it?


#17

» » Benji, you can’t categorically say that the getfitinib guy regrew hair
» » because of a combination of sunburn and the drug. We don’t know that for
» a
» » fact.

» I thought nobody was going to say it, even when it’s so evident, but in
» this forum sometimes speculation becomes true if repeated several times.

Apparently he was the only lung cancer patient, ever, to play golf without his hat.


#18

» » Hey, we will know before too much longer. If me, Cal, and TAGOHL all
» come
» » up with nada…then I probably wont be on the forum
» hardly
» » ever anymore. This is really the “last” best chance for a good while.
» We
» » cant’ “test” ACELL at home. That will either come out or it wont.
»
» are you guys trying the same procedure? if yes, wouldn’t it be better if
» you tried variations of it?

Sandpaper, chemical peel, depth of wound, lithium, DSMO, Lithium Oratate(sp), gefitnib (oral topical, or suppository), Leflunomide, dosages, when do you do this when do you do that (just when is this embryonic window?)… who the fucccck knows- so many variables, probably over 1,000,000 variations.


#19

Hey Benji -

You rattled off several examples of hairs grown from scalp injuries a few posts ago.

Do you have any input on the characteristics of those hairs that grew on these cases? Did they look different (as in, not just same-looking hairs that were stuck at some stage between vellus & fully terminal, but DIFFERENT in color or curl or something) from their normal scalp hairs?

I’m not VERY worried about new Folica hairs turning out to have wrong characteristics as a whole, but the small possibility of them turning out to be more of a body-type hair than a scalp-type hair still exists.


#20

» Apparently he was the only lung cancer patient, ever, to play golf without
» his hat.

I will run a new business, uv cabins for baldies, I will give them some pills, egfr inhibitors instead of vitamins, I’m gonna be rich very soon.