@Bald-HalfTruth - adreans trial?

Reply to hairman2:
very good points.
I will add another point. We don’t know if ARI-HM will be additive to Propecia and Minoxidil. I mean, 5+5 could not be 10.
Fckhrls says that if Propecia and Minox give us 20% more hair, then ARI-HM will give us “another” 20%. Well, this is not so easy. Even if these treatments are based in different principles, there could be an overlapping. I mean, some follicles could be revived by ARI-HM and also by Propecia-Minox. So, if you apply Propecia-Minox and revive these follicles, you won’t revive them anymore when you apply ARI-HM. So you won’t get a 20% additional hair, but something less than that. That is probably why ARI wanted trialists who are not taking Propecia-Minox.

» Sorry cal but its not as easy as that… 25% more hair is not the same as
» 25% darker area of coverage in photoshop. Saying that would mean that a
» person with 8 hairs on his head has 25% darker coverage with 10 hairs? Hair
» count and coverage do not have a linear correlatation.
»
» Also the 25% improvement seems to be in areas of thinning hair, so on a
» 5000 graft transplant i dont think the 25% applies to the transplanted hair
» but rather to the thinning original hair, which might well be a far smaller
» procentage.
»
»
» » Take a pic of your thinning bald spot, get it into photoshop, and
» darken
» » the area by 25%. That’s a BIG improvement for anything working outside
» the
» » typical methods. That’s real.
» »
» » Or you could imagine it this way: Take a HT recipient area that has
» had
» » 4000 grafts implanted, and magically turn it into 5000 grafts. No
» » additional hormone effects, and no loss of the regained hair as soon as
» any
» » daily medication regimens are stopped.
» »
» »
» »
» »
» » If you guys can’t see the progress this represents then you’re not
» being
» » realistic about near-term HM. We haven’t ever seen jack sh*t in terms
» of
» » visible results from any other kind of HM project like this. And nobody
» is
» » saying this result is the final product of ARI’s project, either.
» »
» » I am pleased by the sound of this.

» We don’t know (…)
:smiley:

@Spanish Dude, you’re a cool guy (really), but you’re a funny guy too …

Keep cool!

» Reply to hairman2:
» very good points.
» I will add another point. We don’t know if ARI-HM will be additive to
» Propecia and Minoxidil. I mean, 5+5 could not be 10.
» Fckhrls says that if Propecia and Minox give us 20% more hair, then ARI-HM
» will give us “another” 20%. Well, this is not so easy. Even if these
» treatments are based in different principles, there could be an
» overlapping. I mean, some follicles could be revived by ARI-HM and also by
» Propecia-Minox. So, if you apply Propecia-Minox and revive these follicles,
» you won’t revive them anymore when you apply ARI-HM. So you won’t get a 20%
» additional hair, but something less than that. That is probably why ARI
» wanted trialists who are not taking Propecia-Minox.

You may have a point about the overlapping gains. That remains to be seen just like a ton of other things.

But as for their decision to only test guys who aren’t taking meds? I’m sure that’s just a matter of controlling variables for the testing.

» » Sorry cal but its not as easy as that… 25% more hair is not the same
» as
» » 25% darker area of coverage in photoshop. Saying that would mean that a
» » person with 8 hairs on his head has 25% darker coverage with 10 hairs?
» Hair
» » count and coverage do not have a linear correlatation.

Valid point. If the original spot is very sparsely covered then a 25% increase in weak little hairs won’t darken it 25% in total.

I wrote that in a hurry while I was visualizing my own scalp. My head is light skinned, very dark haired, and still 2/3rds covered in most places. It would probably apply to my case more than to some others with more progressed loss.

» » Also the 25% improvement seems to be in areas of thinning hair, so on a
» » 5000 graft transplant i dont think the 25% applies to the transplanted
» hair
» » but rather to the thinning original hair, which might well be a far
» smaller
» » procentage.
» »

I agree with you here and I didn’t ever mean to say anything otherwise.

When I made that comment I was just using the HT analogy because it’s the only way that most of us have a commonly agreed-upon understanding of what several thousand hairs looks like in some form. But of course, yes, the experiment doesn’t prove results on anything other than native hairs.

Yet.

sorry, this is another question, but its an important one. Is the direction correct? do they look normal?

» Thanks again for your replies.
» So you have grown 5 brand new, terminal hairs, plus some colorless vellus
» hairs. Well, this improves the picture because there is hope for even
» better outcome (these vellus could still turn into terminals). Or maybe
» just finetuning the protocol could make that these colourless vellus hairs
» are terminal instead.
»
» Do you know approximately how many injections or scaffolds did they give
» you in each of these 2 areas? I mean… don’t tell me details, I just want
» to know the yield (injections per new hair. e.g if you got 10 injections
» and got 5 terminal hairs, yield would be 50%). Just tell me the approximate
» yield (%), if you feel you may tell this.
»
» Its a pity that the areas are not totally bald. The experiment would have
» been much more meaningful.
»
»
» I have so many questions, but I don’t want to push you, as this could
» jeopardize your participation, I mean, if ARI gets upset they could expell
» you from the experiment, and we all would lose.
»
» Keep in touch. We will ask you things little by little, and I think this
» way it will be ok.
»
» » Spanish Dude.
» » I never had any TOTALLY bald areas… just thinning.
» » There are two test areas on my scalp.
» » Both are showing the same results.
» » The researchers don’t tell me the results. I’m just going by my own
» » observations with a mirror and a magnifying glass.
» » One small area originally had 20 hairs. Now it has 25.
» » That’s actually a 25% increase.
» » I also notice these very small colorless hairs created (like peach
» fuzz)
» » that I’m not counting yet. Hopefully they’ll develop too.
» » My name was revealed on ANOTHER website. So I won’t be talking about
» » techniques at all… just results. And pix are strictly forbidden.

Is this after only 1 treatment?

» Spanish Dude.
» I never had any TOTALLY bald areas… just thinning.
» There are two test areas on my scalp.
» Both are showing the same results.
» The researchers don’t tell me the results. I’m just going by my own
» observations with a mirror and a magnifying glass.
» One small area originally had 20 hairs. Now it has 25.
» That’s actually a 25% increase.
» I also notice these very small colorless hairs created (like peach fuzz)
» that I’m not counting yet. Hopefully they’ll develop too.
» My name was revealed on ANOTHER website. So I won’t be talking about
» techniques at all… just results. And pix are strictly forbidden.

» Is this after only 1 treatment?
»
» » Spanish Dude.
» » I never had any TOTALLY bald areas… just thinning.
» » There are two test areas on my scalp.
» » Both are showing the same results.
» » The researchers don’t tell me the results. I’m just going by my own
» » observations with a mirror and a magnifying glass.
» » One small area originally had 20 hairs. Now it has 25.
» » That’s actually a 25% increase.
» » I also notice these very small colorless hairs created (like peach
» fuzz)
» » that I’m not counting yet. Hopefully they’ll develop too.
» » My name was revealed on ANOTHER website. So I won’t be talking about
» » techniques at all… just results. And pix are strictly forbidden.

when can we expect this to hit the market?

ohhhh and do they still have to use strip or fue for this??? in other words will you be left with some scaring? cuz i think they just inject this stuff into your head right… so you wouldnt need to worry about them retransplanting it back in surgically right?

»
» ohhhh and do they still have to use strip or fue for this??? in other
» words will you be left with some scaring? cuz i think they just inject
» this stuff into your head right… so you wouldnt need to worry about them
» retransplanting it back in surgically right?

you are funny Virgo. so stupid questions :slight_smile:

» »
» » ohhhh and do they still have to use strip or fue for this??? in other
» » words will you be left with some scaring? cuz i think they just inject
» » this stuff into your head right… so you wouldnt need to worry about
» them
» » retransplanting it back in surgically right?
»
» you are funny Virgo. so stupid questions :slight_smile:

go f yourself

What really matters is the number of injections that yielded the five hairs and the direction/quality of the hairs. All else is BS.

Yes Spanish Dude.
I looked closely at the new hairs again.
They look completely normal to me… color and direction… as the scaffold intended. I’m glad it works for thinning areas. No shock fallout like HT.
The tiny colorless vellus hairs seem darker now too… but sooooo thin and short.
l l l l l l
l l l l l l
l l l l l l
1 11 11 111 1

» What really matters is the number of injections that yielded the five hairs
» and the direction/quality of the hairs. All else is BS.

I agree. Given the mechanism of HM, I really doubt there is a strong correlation between the number of pre-existing hairs and the number of newly formed hairs. It’s more likely to be correlated to the number of injections.

» Yes Spanish Dude.
» I looked closely at the new hairs again.
» They look completely normal to me… color and direction… as the
» scaffold intended. I’m glad it works for thinning areas. No shock fallout
» like HT.
» The tiny colorless vellus hairs seem darker now too… but sooooo thin and
» short.
» l l l l l l
» l l l l l l
» l l l l l l
» 1 11 11 111 1

First, i also would like to thanks you for your valuable input, and sharing your experience with us.

I don’t think you will be allowed to comment the following. But maybe the others can/will.

I have read Aderans patents and claims, and your recent comment about “No shock like HT”. It made me realized that Aderans is in the business of HT not HM ( well… may be a little of both), never the less, it is still HT. If this is the case, then all the limitation of HT (direction, angle, and clumps) are still susceptible of occurring.

Thus, aren’t we just hoping for HT procedure with more hairs or Aderans is looking at a new HM procedure (more like Intercytex and tricoscience approach)?

Also, when we say direction, it is presumed that the new hairs are angled forward (if the test area is on the top).

On another subject, personally i think it is cool, that the hair are both long and “peachy” as it may look potentially more natural.

» Yes Spanish Dude.
» I looked closely at the new hairs again.
» They look completely normal to me… color and direction… as the
» scaffold intended. I’m glad it works for thinning areas. No shock fallout
» like HT.
» The tiny colorless vellus hairs seem darker now too… but sooooo thin and
» short.

Hey BHT, thanks for doing your best to keep us all informed. ARI is our only shot at a marketable treatment in the near-term, so your contributions are really appreciated.

One statement that caught my eye was when you said “They say that should increase with time.” Everyone seemed to disregard this sentence, but it actually sounds really important. Would the researchers tell you what results to expect if they hadn’t already tried it? If I understand the statement correctly, they are basically saying that (due to other results from the same process conducted on another subject at an earlier date) you can expect an improvement from where you are now. They seem to already know what the procedure is capable of.

Also, there is no reason to assume that HM is not compoundable. Given the nature of the procedure, it would be astounding to hear that it could only be implemented one time per patient. While we don’t actually know the yield rate (injections/new hairs), we do know that the yield in pigs was 18%. Your estimation of a 25% increase in density is therefore pretty reasonable.

I’m hesitant to jump on any treatment bandwagon, because they all seem to fail eventually (despite exciting initial progress), but because ARI is the furthest along, they are really the only company worth discussing.

A few quick questions:

  1. Have your results improved (vellus -> terminal) as the researchers suggested?
  2. When is the official “end” of the trial? Have you heard any talk of a Phase III? Time to market?
  3. Do you think my initial assumptions regarding the researchers/results are correct?
  4. Are you aware how other trialists are doing?

Thanks man. Once again, I really appreciate all your efforts.

» » Yes Spanish Dude.
» » I looked closely at the new hairs again.
» » They look completely normal to me… color and direction… as the
» » scaffold intended. I’m glad it works for thinning areas. No shock
» fallout
» » like HT.
» » The tiny colorless vellus hairs seem darker now too… but sooooo thin
» and
» » short.
» » l l l l l l
» » l l l l l l
» » l l l l l l
» » 1 11 11 111 1
»
» First, i also would like to thanks you for your valuable input, and
» sharing your experience with us.
»
» I don’t think you will be allowed to comment the following. But maybe the
» others can/will.
»
» I have read Aderans patents and claims, and your recent comment about “No
» shock like HT”. It made me realized that Aderans is in the business of HT
» not HM ( well… may be a little of both), never the less, it is still HT.
» If this is the case, then all the limitation of HT (direction, angle, and
» clumps) are still susceptible of occurring.
»
» Thus, aren’t we just hoping for HT procedure with more hairs or Aderans is
» looking at a new HM procedure (more like Intercytex and tricoscience
» approach)?
»
» Also, when we say direction, it is presumed that the new hairs are angled
» forward (if the test area is on the top).
»
» On another subject, personally i think it is cool, that the hair are both
» long and “peachy” as it may look potentially more natural.

thanks bht,
what i dont understand is jim73’s comments about this being more like a ht with more hair to transplant. i just simply dont get what he means.

i have a question for you too bht do u think that this would work to regrow eyebrows aswell??? (any feedback would be very kind of you)

thanks man for everything

HI BALDHALF THRUTH how are you??? works this procedure??? the new hair grow up??? and , have you now new hairs in this month???
Regards

» HI BALDHALF THRUTH how are you??? works this procedure??? the new hair
» grow up??? and , have you now new hairs in this month???
» Regards

spañaman, if you’re going to ask him about something he’s not allowed to speak about… at least have the decency to make some effort and write complete sentences… and maybe drop the multiple '?'s. You sound like a 5 yr old child with some form of mild retardation

» » HI BALDHALF THRUTH how are you??? works this procedure??? the new hair
» » grow up??? and , have you now new hairs in this month???
» » Regards
»
» spañaman, if you’re going to ask him about something he’s not allowed to
» speak about… at least have the decency to make some effort and write
» complete sentences… and maybe drop the multiple '?'s. You sound like a 5
» yr old child with some form of mild retardation

I guess he is a spaniard like me(ESPAÑA-MAN)so his bad english is somewhat excused.

» » » HI BALDHALF THRUTH how are you??? works this procedure??? the new
» hair
» » » grow up??? and , have you now new hairs in this month???
» » » Regards
» »
» » spañaman, if you’re going to ask him about something he’s not allowed
» to
» » speak about… at least have the decency to make some effort and write
» » complete sentences… and maybe drop the multiple '?'s. You sound like a
» 5
» » yr old child with some form of mild retardation
»
» I guess he is a spaniard like me(ESPAÑA-MAN)so his bad english is somewhat
» excused.

I dont think baldhalf truth will mind, we are not posting in an English literature forum, quit being so uptight or you will lose more hair due to stress :slight_smile:

Bald-HalfTruth,

I have a question for u if u would be so kind. Do u think Aderans technology will work to regrow eyebrows aswell?

THANK YOU!!! Any insight would be very much so apreciated.

I agree, all of these trials look very promising and optimistic. I think that within 3 to 5 years this should hit the market. Very promising!