Any success with the home made follica yet?

Stem cell; cell based hair therapy
1

So far, the hairlosstalk guys are being academic (discussing the patent) - which is important, but no results there yet afaik.

Regrowth guys now do seem to admit the hair is mostly semivellous and thus far from terminal. – Basically it looks like their results are absolutely identical with needling results done alone –

so it looks like WNT alone is not the key.

Anyone knows someone who has tried EGRF inhibition?

2

» So far, the hairlosstalk guys are being academic (discussing the patent) -
» which is important, but no results there yet afaik.
»
» Regrowth guys now do seem to admit the hair is mostly semivellous and thus
» far from terminal. – Basically it looks like their results are absolutely
» identical with needling results done alone –
»
» so it looks like WNT alone is not the key.
»
» Anyone knows someone who has tried EGRF inhibition?

I assume you have read the latest posts on that thread. I asked whether they think it is the real solution and about the results they have achieved. nidhogge got some nice regrowth he states and Baccy is also convinced the method works, but wonder how well the home-version will work.

http://www.regrowth.com/hair_loss_forums/viewthread.cfm?f=1&t=20964

So it does seem very promising I must say. Follica got some nice money now and much better knowledge than us, so it does seem promising. Let’s hope.

3

Lets define successful results

I don't consider "vellous or slightly terminal" hair to be success nor promising result.

nidgehodge: I definitely regrew a good deal of new hairs on my hairline, and they appear vellus or slightly terminal.

Dont try to see success somewhere where it isnt yet. I know how that hair looks like because I had EXACTLy the same results from needling alone. WNT alone thus seems to bring us nothing new. The hair is good for nothing, you need to get really close to see it. It’s like average womans arm hair. It has pigment, it is quite dense, but weak and thin so much that it is virtually invisible from any distance bigger then 20cms. Just to give you example what I mean by all that. Its giving probably 10-20% of the coverage of that NW7 guy in the HT forum here:

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-33707-page-0-category-2-order-last_answer.html

In other words, we’d need to get it 5-10 times better results still to reach the state of that guy there. That then could be of some help to someone.

I have that kind of hair from needling in my right temple, its really dense, and you can feel it there how dense it is, you barely see it though which is a bit of shame. its not vellous the same way as the hair in my left temple. the main difference is a bit of extra length, and slightly darker colour.

Ideally What I’m after is someone who actually is closer to the gefinitibs regrowth.

If WNT alone is not the key. Is there anyone who is trying EGRF?

4

I should say that I think the somehow poor results so far seen from the guys can be greatly improved. There are two reasons why I think so:

  1. the gefinitib guy
  2. I am convinced that needling alone, can grow normal thickness terminal hair. I have one such hair from it. Dunno why it happened just to one there, but there is one hair very far from my hairline now, that grows 10 cm and longer, its totally normal, thick, and seems to be dht resistant. I believe it was not there before my needling experiments. If you do needling for a long time you can get few of these. The guy who started it all few years ago with needling did show that with photos. It still was just minor improvement even after months of needling though and nothing near the cure. It looked like the terminal hair probability was very low with the needling alone.
5

I think the short answer to your question is this:

– WNT alone isn’t doing much more than just the mechanical injury can do.

– EGF-R experiments are all still too early to know anything.

6

Baccy did some EGF inhibition …Z79 missed the embryonic window according to his own analysis.

7

Orin over at HLT just plucked, waited (patent says three days) and abraded (he takes finasteride) and said he definitely got some growth. He seems to shoot pretty straight on such matters.

Without the getfinib in particular, the success will probably be kinda touchy in us.

8

» Baccy did some EGF inhibition …Z79 missed the embryonic window according
» to his own analysis.

The next 2 weeks should tell me whether I’ve nailed it. This is Day 17 but as I’ve previously mentioned, I’m shaved down to the bone again for neatness. According to the Follica timeline, HF cells should be forming new follicles/rejuvenating old ones as we speak.
Bear in mind guys that I am NW7 and it will take a lot of hair growth for me to get anywhere near the level of hair that some of you guys have. As I’ve previously said, a sparse covering of terminal hair that looks good cropped would suffice for me. It would suit me as I have the square jaw/flat nose rough-arse look with a muscular physique that a lot of girls like (well they do in the UK).
Also bear in mind that what I would consider great results would probably be distinctly underwhelming for most of you guys who insist on a hairline a gnat’s cock length from your eyebrows. :slight_smile:
Let’s just say, I’m not sure what’s going on yet and I will shout and bawl on here and post pics if I get a visible hair shadow coming through on an otherwise entirely bald scalp.
Here’s hoping guys.

9

» so it looks like WNT alone is not the key.

There is solid science associating WNT with increase in number of hair follicles. Just because the experiments haven’t worked so far, doesn’t mean WNT won’t do anything. If I were experimenting, I would explore all options that help with WNT pathway, as of current failures, I’d say its either the lithium they are using, it’s concentration, or delivery.

10

What do you use for EGF inhibition Baccy?

11

Or you may be true about the lithium concentration / delivery or just about the lithium, perhaps lithium on its own inhibits growth by some other means as well

» » so it looks like WNT alone is not the key.
»
» There is solid science associating WNT with increase in number of hair
» follicles. Just because the experiments haven’t worked so far, doesn’t mean
» WNT won’t do anything. If I were experimenting, I would explore all options
» that help with WNT pathway, as of current failures, I’d say its either the
» lithium they are using, it’s concentration, or delivery.

12

» What do you use for EGF inhibition Baccy?

Milk thistle both topically and orally. But to be honest, I question it’s efficacy. If they were potent enough EGF inhibitors, many people taking supplements of these naturals would be inhibiting their EGF and we wouldn’t need expensive synthetic drugs in the first place.
The key, I think, is the EGF inhibition. Get THAT right and we all get our hair back (and that means all you would-be chimpanzees out there too :slight_smile: )
I’m looking into trying tannic acid as an inhibitor. According to abstracts on the net, it’s a very potent EGF inhibitor.

13

I’m starting an attempt with leflunomide in the coming week that should blow the lid off this question once and for all.

– depilation 3 days ahead of time (waxing and not chemical removers).

– several cm2’s worth of abrasion wound that’s literally as deep as possible without hitting blood.

– oral Arava pills starting 4 days after the wound

– no topicals at all

– a Fin dosage bigger than my normal one the whole time.

This should lock out every possible uncertain variable. If there’s any real viability to Folica’s whole EGF-R inhibition concept then I should get visible hair growing. It might not be the best possible result, but I don’t think there’s any variation room left in the concept for this attempt to grow nothing at all.

I don’t think the chance of fake pills is very high. But even if that happens, two weeks of taking oral Arava should probably show some signs of side effects. If I don’t grow any hair at all and I also don’t feel any side effects from this stuff at all, then I’ll suspect my pills of being fake before I assume Folica’s whole concept is flawed.

14

» I’m starting an attempt with leflunomide in the coming week that should
» blow the lid off this question once and for all.
»
»
» – depilation 3 days ahead of time (waxing and not chemical removers).
»
» – several cm2’s worth of abrasion wound that’s literally as deep as
» possible without hitting blood.
»
» – oral Arava pills starting 4 days after the wound
»
» – no topicals at all
»
» – a Fin dosage bigger than my normal one the whole time.
»
»
»
» This should lock out every possible uncertain variable. If there’s any
» real viability to Folica’s whole EGF-R inhibition concept then I should get
» visible hair growing. It might not be the best possible result, but
» I don’t think there’s any variation room left in the concept for this
» attempt to grow nothing at all.
»
»
» I don’t think the chance of fake pills is very high. But even if that
» happens, two weeks of taking oral Arava should probably show some signs of
» side effects. If I don’t grow any hair at all and I also don’t feel any
» side effects from this stuff at all, then I’ll suspect my pills of being
» fake before I assume Folica’s whole concept is flawed.

Very nice to hear that someone is trying a different routine and I wish you all the luck! Something we have not been expermenting on is the depth of the wound, it might be that some serious wounding need to take place to kickstart the process. So if you can stand the pain you might want to consider doing “blood-deep” abrasion. But I understand if you will pass on that :slight_smile:
I have done a second experiment by the way. Still on my minox/arava topical. This time I did a smaller area and not the whole scalp and I started applying on day 3. Im on day 7 now so I will see in a month if there will be some results this time.

15

» Very nice to hear that someone is trying a different routine and I wish
» you all the luck! Something we have not been expermenting on is the depth
» of the wound, it might be that some serious wounding need to take place to
» kickstart the process. So if you can stand the pain you might want to
» consider doing “blood-deep” abrasion. But I understand if you will pass on
» that :slight_smile:

If you’re going blood-deep, might as well add ACELL to the wound. Can’t think of anything bad coming out of it.

16

» » Very nice to hear that someone is trying a different routine and I wish
» » you all the luck! Something we have not been expermenting on is the
» depth
» » of the wound, it might be that some serious wounding need to take place
» to
» » kickstart the process. So if you can stand the pain you might want to
» » consider doing “blood-deep” abrasion. But I understand if you will pass
» on
» » that :slight_smile:
»
» If you’re going blood-deep, might as well add ACELL to the wound. Can’t
» think of anything bad coming out of it.

Thanks for the positive feedback, but right now I don’t think this stuff should be in the cards.

Blood-deep wound = scabbing and scar tissue.

The bedrock concept of dermabrasion/chemical peels is to get to the ragged edge of hitting blood, but NOT crossing that barrier. Draw blood, and the tissue heals differently and the scarring starts. Draw blood, and the skin no longer heals back to a better condition that it started in.

As for drawing blood & slapping Acell on the wound?

Not a bad idea to try at some point, but not this time. It would be one more unknown variable into the mix to muck up the answer about whether Folica’s basic EGF-R science really works or not. Until it’s settled with a firm “yes” on a live human, that question is the only one worth testing IMO.

Folica clearly thinks dermabrasion alone will do it. And anything more than that is probably not marketable anyway; scalping people is a tough sell even for good hair back.

So dermabrasion it is, this time.

If my experiment fails w/o any suspicions of fake pills, then I have to doubt the whole Folica project will work. The only variable that would be remaining is the concern that something unforeseen is different between performing the method on moused skin grafts versus live humans. The mice’s immunosuppression, etc.

17

cal, Since you’re testing a small portion of your scalp. I’d recommend that you do it alongside your hairline i.e. right next to where your terminal hair end, instead of in the middle of the bald temple.

The reason I say this is because I remember reading somewhere that during regeneration/repair the body also gets it’s clues from near by cells. Also, doing so definitely won’t have any negative effect but we could get lucky!

18

Regarding depth of wound I don’t think you could get any deeper than I did without drawing blood. That’s heavy sandpapering over the entire scalp and then a 30% acid peel directly onto the raw skin. If you love pain, you’ll love this.

19

» Regarding depth of wound I don’t think you could get any deeper than I did
» without drawing blood. That’s heavy sandpapering over the entire scalp and
» then a 30% acid peel directly onto the raw skin. If you love pain, you’ll
» love this.

I read what you are doing in the thread above. Its a good strategy I think.

Im anxious to get my hands on a synthetic egf-receptor antagonists (have ordered one now) and give it a shot myself. Like you, I plan on no topicals hitting the area directly. It will either work in a human or it wont. If it doesn’t, the only thing I can see different is the immunosuppression angle. They supposedly did the human skin experiment several times according to the patent, and were able to replicate their success…so we know for certain it can work in human skin and the one example was not a fluke. Im just hoping the MPB-scalp doesn’t have a trick up its sleeve. The skin they were working with was donor-area skin, and that is a concern.

Good luck, and am glad you are trying it.

20

Baccy: Thats what I think. If Milk Thistle could treat cancer ppl would not be popping gefinitib.

But to get the damn thing is soo dificult. And its quite costy as well.