» » » It’s called Hairisme my friend, HAIRISME. Even the cief analyst of CNN
» » » Bill schneider, who is bald himself and is a master at understanding
» » » political-social trends, talked about it and described it as one of
» the
» » » last “Taboos” in America.
» »
» » You’re so right Amilcar. Try to speak about e.g. obesity the same way
» as
» » baldness is widely discussed, and you’ll be in trouble!
»
» so you both mean its 1st and 2nd class people and guys with hair are 1st
» class people and them without hair are 2nd class people? like with white
» and black people? a bit that may be true, but you even can say attractive
» people are 1st class people and ugly people are 2nd class people or
» something like this. you always can put people in categories. but i dont
» think thats a right way of thinking.
»
» bald or balding people are people, too, like everyone else. especially if
» you are bald yourself, then why think that way? well, the answer probably
» only you can give. if you think that way…ok. so we all are 2nd class
» people for you? very nice! im balding myself and you call me 2nd class?
» better grow up!
helpme007,
Come on, you surely know this is not my point. I certainly believe that all people are equal. However, what I said was a pure and neutral observation of society dynamics, there was no place for personal judgment in it and I think that was the case for Latinlover too.
» helpme007,
»
» Come on, you surely know this is not my point. I certainly believe that
» all people are equal. However, what I said was a pure and neutral
» observation of society dynamics, there was no place for personal judgment
» in it and I think that was the case for Latinlover too.
It was effectively the case, Amilcar: شكرا
Helpme007: sorry if my comments were misinterpretated!
Keep dreaming.
History has proven time & time again what happens to these heavily hyped cures.It’s amazing how Follica can come out & say that they are just conducting a proof of concept & every guy here thinks this is a sign that the cure is around the corner.This is the same thing that happened with ICX.
» »Follica will at least be here in our lifetime.
»
» Keep dreaming.
» History has proven time & time again what happens to these heavily hyped
» cures.It’s amazing how Follica can come out & say that they are just
» conducting a proof of concept & every guy here thinks this is a sign that
» the cure is around the corner.This is the same thing that happened with
» ICX.
Go ahead dude…just tell me what history is proving here. Lets here your grand synopsis.
» »Follica will at least be here in our lifetime.
»
» Keep dreaming.
» History has proven time & time again what happens to these heavily hyped
» cures.It’s amazing how Follica can come out & say that they are just
» conducting a proof of concept & every guy here thinks this is a sign that
» the cure is around the corner.This is the same thing that happened with
» ICX.
I don’t get you. First you say “Follica is our best hope to date”. Now this.
» » helpme007,
» »
» » Come on, you surely know this is not my point. I certainly believe that
» » all people are equal. However, what I said was a pure and neutral
» » observation of society dynamics, there was no place for personal
» judgment
» » in it and I think that was the case for Latinlover too.
»
» It was effectively the case, Amilcar: شكرا
» Helpme007: sorry if my comments were misinterpretated!
well, so bald people have a stigma in society? its proven that bald people are seen less attractive. i wonder if that goes for shaved guys, too or only for guys with a horseshoe.
ya, beeing bald sux. but its real and research isnt that far yet. so we should do the best out of it. you probably have other flaws, too , except your balding. and you have strengths. try to build on your strenghts and dont only build on future outcome of research for hairloss.
» This is all fine and dandy. It just seems that this kind of technology…
» to actually be marketable is a long long way off. Follica will at least be
» here in our lifetime.
Follica is a nice thought. But IMO, the hair won’t be DHT resistant. I realize some people claim otherwise, but I’ve yet to see the scientific rationale that backs that assertion. I think for the most part, it’s wishful thinking.
Where are the cells coming from that cause the newly born follicles to be DHT resistant? The fact that the areas being targeted once had hair that was lost to DHT is pretty strong evidence that follicles originating in that area are subject to DHT-related fallout.
If you ask me, Cotseralis knows darn well the technique as is won’t be DHT resistant. But he’s playing dumb because he hopes by the time the technique is nearing release, he can figure out a solution to the problem.
Follica is a nice thought. But IMO, the hair won’t be DHT resistant. I realize some people claim otherwise, but I’ve yet to see the scientific rationale that backs that assertion. I think for the most part, it’s wishful thinking.
Where are the cells coming from that cause the newly born follicles to be DHT resistant? The fact that the areas being targeted once had hair that was lost to DHT is pretty strong evidence that follicles originating in that area are subject to DHT-related fallout.
If you ask me, Cotseralis knows darn well the technique as is won’t be DHT resistant. But he’s playing dumb because he hopes by the time the technique is nearing release, he can figure out a solution to the problem.
So just how far off is Follica really?
DHT resistance or not, Follica could provide a much needed reprieve until something better comes along.
» Follica is a nice thought. But IMO, the hair won’t be DHT
» resistant. I realize some people claim otherwise, but I’ve yet to see the
» scientific rationale that backs that assertion. I think for the most part,
» it’s wishful thinking.
»
» Where are the cells coming from that cause the newly born follicles to be
» DHT resistant? The fact that the areas being targeted once had hair that
» was lost to DHT is pretty strong evidence that follicles originating in
» that area are subject to DHT-related fallout.
»
» If you ask me, Cotseralis knows darn well the technique as is won’t be DHT
» resistant. But he’s playing dumb because he hopes by the time the technique
» is nearing release, he can figure out a solution to the problem.
»
» So just how far off is Follica really?
» DHT resistance or not, Follica could provide a much needed reprieve until
» something better comes along.
Exactly- even if it isnt DHT resistant it should have the same “non-DHT” lifespan as if it was a newborn HF which would give at least 16 yrs or so. That would be my take on it.
» » This is all fine and dandy. It just seems that this kind of
» technology…
» » to actually be marketable is a long long way off. Follica will at least
» be
» » here in our lifetime.
»
» Follica is a nice thought. But IMO, the hair won’t be DHT resistant. I
» realize some people claim otherwise, but I’ve yet to see the scientific
» rationale that backs that assertion. I think for the most part, it’s
» wishful thinking.
»
» Where are the cells coming from that cause the newly born follicles to be
» DHT resistant? The fact that the areas being targeted once had hair that
» was lost to DHT is pretty strong evidence that follicles originating in
» that area are subject to DHT-related fallout.
»
» If you ask me, Cotseralis knows darn well the technique as is won’t be DHT
» resistant. But he’s playing dumb because he hopes by the time the technique
» is nearing release, he can figure out a solution to the problem.
»
» So just how far off is Follica really?
James,
One can do a TCA peel in the DONOR AREA and apply the follica topical. Hopefully this would thicken the existing donor area so a greater supply of FUE follicles would be made. THAT is my “hope” for Follica in the near term.
Also…very important, Ectodsysplasin (EDAR) is mentioned IN the follica patent. The ectodsysplasin family of genes are expressed with the androgen receptor genes when skin grows over your skull in fetal development. It may be that by overexpressing this during the critical 7 day “hair making” period, that androgen receptor expression might be signifigantly decreased in the new hair. Just using dutasteride during the 7 days would avail the newly made hairs to very small amounts of DHT. If someone had been on fluridil “up there” for months, which decreases androgen receptor expression PERIOD over time, then perhaps the hairs created might not be “just like” the hairs that were there… I realize all this is hypothetical however. Just saying.
Im with you James on HM. I hope Aderans hits an absolute “home run”. Cell based HM with hairs that were just like donor hairs genetically would be the most “elegant route”, but I’ll take new hair however they get it to me. If I have to do fluridil and finasteride to keep it,then Im willing to do that.
MPB-----------------If James is utterly correct, and the new hairs made were not androgen resistant any more than the original ones were, then you’d probably lose them after one hair cycle. This would not be 16 years. You didn’t hit puberty until 12 or 13. It would be 3-6 years. Lets hope not, but even if they are-----you can use finas, fluridil, ketoconazole on them and keep them a lot longer.
» Exactly- even if it isnt DHT resistant it should have the same “non-DHT”
» lifespan as if it was a newborn HF which would give at least 16 yrs or so.
» That would be my take on it.
I disagree.
Your hair follicles originally formed in a healthy DHT-free environment where the skin was rich in growth factors and vigorous stem cells. This allowed the follicles to get a good strong start. With Follica, follicles will be developing in a hostile environment where they are getting attacked by DHT before they even fully form. Depending on your individual biochemistry, this might not allow the follicles to get robustly established. Most likely Follica will use drugs in the skin that help keep the effects of MBP at bay while the follicles develop. However, they’re still going to take a beating at an early stage and continue to be beat upon throughout their life-span.
It wasn’t until you were well into puberty that your hair follicles started taking a hit. So the 16-year reprieve you experienced wasn’t due to hair follicles being DHT resistant for 16 years. Prior to that, you didn’t have sufficient levels of DHT in your system to cause your hair to lose quality.
If you started balding about the time you got a nice thick beard, then chances are, Follica won’t work for you. OTOH, if you started slowly balding a decade after your beard grew in, Follica might tide you over until HM arrives.
Intercytex’ approach isn’t a bad idea. It pre-stimulates the epidermis (read wounding) and injects growth factors and cells into the area capable of growing DHT resistant follicles. It would be nice to see a company mix Follica with HM. That could prove to be a very powerful system as you would get a Follica embryonic like skin environment with DHT-resistant hair follicle precursor cells.
I’m not attempting to rain on the Follica parade. It’s just that I see a lot of hype about it that I don’t believe it can stand up to. It might turn out to be a great product, but before we get there, I predict many difficult hurdles must be overcome.
Hey guys I have been reading your posts for a while, I use to be a regular member but then moved on with my life after getting a system. Anyways this thred got my attention, specially with the phase 2 trial and they are in DC which is where I live. I will call them tomorrow and see if I can sign up for the trial.
» One can do a TCA peel in the DONOR AREA and apply the follica topical.
» Hopefully this would thicken the existing donor area so a greater supply of
» FUE follicles would be made. THAT is my “hope” for Follica in the near
» term.
That’s an excellent idea. If you were to use as small of extraction needle as possible, you could keep scarring to a minimum. Then hit your donor really hard with an FUE megasession to where the donor is noticeably thinned out and depleted (maybe 8-10k grafts). Then Follica the back of the head to restore full density. Repeat the process in a year.
» Also…very important, Ectodsysplasin (EDAR) is mentioned IN the
» follica patent. The ectodsysplasin family of genes are expressed with the
» androgen receptor genes when skin grows over your skull in fetal
» development. It may be that by overexpressing this during the critical 7
» day “hair making” period, that androgen receptor expression might be
» signifigantly decreased in the new hair. Just using dutasteride during the
» 7 days would avail the newly made hairs to very small amounts of DHT. If
» someone had been on fluridil “up there” for months, which decreases
» androgen receptor expression PERIOD over time, then perhaps the hairs
» created might not be “just like” the hairs that were there… I realize
» all this is hypothetical however. Just saying.
I haven’t read the patent as I’m really pretty involved in a lot of non-hair related stuff these days, so I don’t spend much time thinking about hair. But I imagine the idea you mention and several more that will be thought up over the next few years could help with the problem.
Ultimately, I don’t see Follica as the holy grail to hair loss. It could turn out to be a nice interim solution though.
On another note. I got a physical last week, and my 70-year-old doctor asked me to lean on the exam table while he checked my prostate. He acted surprised and said I have enough hair on my ass to get a full head of hair should I ever decide to get a transplant. We both got a pretty good laugh out of that. But seriously, I was pretty impressed that the old guy was up on BHT.
» » Exactly- even if it isnt DHT resistant it should have the same “non-DHT”
» » lifespan as if it was a newborn HF which would give at least 16 yrs or
» so.
» » That would be my take on it.
»
» I disagree.
»
» 1) Your hair follicles originally formed in a healthy DHT-free environment
» where the skin was rich in growth factors and vigorous stem cells. This
» allowed the follicles to get a good strong start. With Follica, follicles
» will be developing in a hostile environment where they are getting attacked
» by DHT before they even fully form. Depending on your individual
» biochemistry, this might not allow the follicles to get robustly
» established. Most likely Follica will use drugs in the skin that help keep
» the effects of MBP at bay while the follicles develop. However, they’re
» still going to take a beating at an early stage and continue to be beat
» upon throughout their life-span.
»
» 2) It wasn’t until you were well into puberty that your hair follicles
» started taking a hit. So the 16-year reprieve you experienced wasn’t due to
» hair follicles being DHT resistant for 16 years. Prior to that, you didn’t
» have sufficient levels of DHT in your system to cause your hair to lose
» quality.
»
» If you started balding about the time you got a nice thick beard, then
» chances are, Follica won’t work for you. OTOH, if you started slowly
» balding a decade after your beard grew in, Follica might tide you over
» until HM arrives.
»
» Intercytex’ approach isn’t a bad idea. It pre-stimulates the epidermis
» (read wounding) and injects growth factors and cells into the area capable
» of growing DHT resistant follicles. It would be nice to see a company mix
» Follica with HM. That could prove to be a very powerful system as you would
» get a Follica embryonic like skin environment with DHT-resistant hair
» follicle precursor cells.
»
» I’m not attempting to rain on the Follica parade. It’s just that I see a
» lot of hype about it that I don’t believe it can stand up to. It might turn
» out to be a great product, but before we get there, I predict many
» difficult hurdles must be overcome.
JB,
Won’t an easy solution to the DHT problem then be to transplant DHT resistant hair to crown and MPB affected areas, and then use the Follica technique on your non-DHT areas to get back you donor hair?
» I’m not attempting to rain on the Follica parade. It’s just that I see a
» lot of hype about it that I don’t believe it can stand up to. It might turn
» out to be a great product, but before we get there, I predict many
» difficult hurdles must be overcome.
That’s right. I forgot InterCytex is a cakewalk.
I’ve seen more executive competence and homebrew success with Follica in 9 months than we’ve seen with Intercytex in what? 3,4,5 years? You’ll forgive me for if I don’t agree with just yet.
» » Exactly- even if it isnt DHT resistant it should have the same “non-DHT”
» » lifespan as if it was a newborn HF which would give at least 16 yrs or
» so.
» » That would be my take on it.
»
» I disagree.
»
» 1) Your hair follicles originally formed in a healthy DHT-free environment
» where the skin was rich in growth factors and vigorous stem cells. This
» allowed the follicles to get a good strong start. With Follica, follicles
» will be developing in a hostile environment where they are getting attacked
» by DHT before they even fully form. Depending on your individual
» biochemistry, this might not allow the follicles to get robustly
» established. Most likely Follica will use drugs in the skin that help keep
» the effects of MBP at bay while the follicles develop. However, they’re
» still going to take a beating at an early stage and continue to be beat
» upon throughout their life-span.
»
» 2) It wasn’t until you were well into puberty that your hair follicles
» started taking a hit. So the 16-year reprieve you experienced wasn’t due to
» hair follicles being DHT resistant for 16 years. Prior to that, you didn’t
» have sufficient levels of DHT in your system to cause your hair to lose
» quality.
»
» If you started balding about the time you got a nice thick beard, then
» chances are, Follica won’t work for you. OTOH, if you started slowly
» balding a decade after your beard grew in, Follica might tide you over
» until HM arrives.
»
If this is true then Cotsarelis and company are spending a lot of time and money for nothing. Do you really think they are that boneheaded stupid taking on a protocol that has absolutely no chance for success? With all due respect this just doesnt add up.
Just a thought here. If follica works, couldn’t one just have the procedure done on about a one inch strip right above the DHT resistant hair on the sides and back of the head. Most new follicles would be formed stem cells from DHT resistant hair.
Since the procedure would form follicles within a month, you could probably have this done three times in a half year and cover your entire scalp. Most of the new follicles would come from a line of cells that originate from DHT resistant hair. Even if you would thin out in time, you could have the procedure done over again. Each time you have the procedure it should create more DHT resistant follicles.
And most people think this procedure should be significantly less expensive then HT, doing it several time should be less expensive then a HT.
» That’s right. I forgot InterCytex is a cakewalk.
»
» I’ve seen more executive competence and homebrew success with Follica in 9
» months than we’ve seen with Intercytex in what? 3,4,5 years? You’ll forgive
» me for if I don’t agree with just yet.
Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never said ICX is going to be available next month and cure everybody. I simply said, in the long term, it stands a much greater chance of curing baldness than Follica. However, this does not mean that ICX will be the company that brings the technique to market or that their exact technique will be what eventually comes to market. The facts are that Follica in its current form = continued fallout of the transplanted hair, and HM = new hair never falls out.
People who propose transplanting the donor to the bald areas and then using Follica on the donor are on to something. That brings about some limitations, but it doesn’t mean Follica will be completely non-useful. However, due to the limitations of the technique, it won’t be the super cure most people are hoping for.
» If this is true then Cotsarelis and company are spending a lot of time
» and money for nothing. Do you really think they are that boneheaded stupid
» taking on a protocol that has absolutely no chance for success? With all
» due respect this just doesnt add up.
It adds up perfectly. A very small percentage of biotech startup ideas actually make it to market and become wildly successful ventures. But don’t let me get you too down. I think Follica stands a good chance of becoming a successful product. It’s just that I believe it will have some limitations that ultimately make some people continue to search for a better solution.
IOW, HM will be a better cure, but Follica might get here sooner. Then again, I could be wrong. I don’t claim to be a hair prophet. I just try to follow along logically with how I perceive the science to work and express my opinions.
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