Aderans (JP) - Latest Key Developments

» I just want answers to these questions.
»
» 1) Will it work for everybody
» 2) Can it give a full NW7 a full head of hair with perfect wet density
» 3) Will the new grown hair be forever?
» 4) Will the hair have its normal texture?

  1. No, probably around 70% (as the graph states).
  2. No, that is just unrealistic. If that is what you want, you will never be satisfied.
  3. Don’t know.
  4. Yes.

They didn’t give straight answers, but they gave enough information for people to derive the answers for themselves.

» » I just want answers to these questions.
» »
» » 1) Will it work for everybody
» » 2) Can it give a full NW7 a full head of hair with perfect wet density
» » 3) Will the new grown hair be forever?
» » 4) Will the hair have its normal texture?
»
» 1) No, probably around 70% (as the graph states).
» 2) No, that is just unrealistic. If that is what you want, you will never
» be satisfied.
» 3) Don’t know.
» 4) Yes.
»
» They didn’t give straight answers, but they gave enough information for
» people to derive the answers for themselves.

And thats the problem everybody will “derive” the informations on his personal feelings,

So to speak, why do you thin its unrealistic for a NW7 to become an NW1 if you clearly saw new grown hairs out of nowhere :slight_smile:

To sum things up with speculations and derivations we are just at the start AGAIN ^^

Cause as i saw it, there was one thing in this whole sheet which was the most important thing, the 50% increase of peachy hairs.

Where is Iron Man wanna hear his opinion ans answers to my questions :wink:

I’m sure there will not be anything like 100% treatment results, certainly not in the first few years.

But as far as I understand things, IMHO the total square inches of scalp skin are needing treatment should not be a significant factor in what they can achieve on a given patient.

That’s sort of like saying a new type of grass seed can sprout double the blades per square inch that your backyard naturally has, but it will only work for half the area of your yard. It doesn’t make sense as long as your yard’s growing coonditions are the same throughout the whole area. (As far as I know nobody has ever shown that a NW#7 has any different scalp condition inside an individual square inch than a NW#5 or NW#6.)

Just for the record …

VIDEO with Tadao Otsuki (CEO, Aderans/Unihair) and Dr. Ken Washenik (ARI):

http://www.c-hotline.net/?module=Viewer&codeAcc=ADHDf15441b0e61a36b1fab180ee08a233d3

Part 1 - Tadao Otsuki ( 00:00 → 35:50 )
http://www.aderans.co.jp/hd/english/ir/financial/pdf/plan/m_management_handout_e.pdf

Part 2 - Dr. Ken Washenik ( 35:50 → 57:03 )
http://www.aderans.co.jp/hd/english/ir/financial/pdf/plan/m_management_handout_e2.pdf

BTW - Now it’s clear (as explained by CEO Tadao Otsuki in the video):

“Unihair” stands for “UNIVERSAL Hair” …

And as explained by Dr. Ken Washenik in the video, “Ji Gami” is the japanese expression for “own hair” …

» I’m sure there will not be anything like 100% treatment results, certainly
» not in the first few years.
»
»
» But as far as I understand things, IMHO the total square inches of scalp
» skin are needing treatment should not be a significant factor in what they
» can achieve on a given patient.
»
» That’s sort of like saying a new type of grass seed can sprout double the
» blades per square inch that your backyard naturally has, but it will only
» work for half the area of your yard. It doesn’t make sense as long as your
» yard’s growing coonditions are the same throughout the whole area. (As far
» as I know nobody has ever shown that a NW#7 has any different scalp
» condition inside an individual square inch than a NW#5 or NW#6.)

So is this good or bad for us suffering people ^^

» Aderans Co., Ltd.

i understand that they try to commercialize this product in the first half of 2014 if everything goes like they have planned? It means during 4 years hm is avalable by aderans? they are now closer than “5 year” predictions :slight_smile:

» i understand that they try to commercialize this product in the first half
» of 2014 if everything goes like they have planned? It means during 4 years
» hm is avalable by aderans? they are now closer than “5 year” predictions :slight_smile:

According to Dr. Ken Washenik, actually we’re 3.5 years away from now (June 2010) …

» » i understand that they try to commercialize this product in the first
» half
» » of 2014 if everything goes like they have planned? It means during 4
» years
» » hm is avalable by aderans? they are now closer than “5 year”
» predictions
:slight_smile:
»
» According to Dr. Ken Washenik, actually we’re 3.5 years away from
» now (June 2010) …
»
»

I am not an Elvis type ^^

But Please Iron Man, can you somehow answer my questions “kudasai”

BTW Shooot i should have known about the japanese name "Punkt für Dich :slight_smile:

» But Please Iron Man, can you somehow answer my questions “kudasai
»

“kudasai” ? hmmm, “kudos” ?

» » But Please Iron Man, can you somehow answer my questions
» “kudasai
» »
»
» “kudasai” ? hmmm, “kudos” ?

Kudasai = japanese ^^ translated like “Pleeeeeeease” :slight_smile:

So Please please enlighten me. Your links are always getting me a heart attack :slight_smile:

I never know if its a good promising thing or something which destroys all our hopes :slight_smile:

just to understand, I have 2 questions to people who said certain things

first: why you said that a nw7 will never become a nw1 ? even Washenik said that this is possible with this procedure… I guess this is why you can do it more than 2 times if u want… this procedure is repeatable I guess

second: why you said that this don’t work for anyone? I dont think there are people who doesn’t gave any results by this treatment… maybe someone get more or someone get less but this should work for everbody

those are YOUR opinion or FACTS ? just to understand…

as usual sorry for bad eng :smiley:

I do not know any additional facts. What I have said on this thread is just my personal opinion.

I do not beleive that ARI’s treatment will be effective on 100% of all patients because this is uncommon in the hair loss industry.

Finasteride, Minoxidil . . . according to our understanding of science these kinds of medications should theoretically be effective on everyone. But they are not. They are effective on most patients but there are usually 10% or more who do not regrow/maintain hair from them. So I expect this pattern to repeat for ARI’s treatment in the future, even though we do not currently have a specific reason to expect it. I am just trying to keep my expectations realistic.

However I do not think that guys with severe loss should dispair over this. There are guys losing hair in aggressive NW#6 and NW#7 patterns who benefit greatly from using Finasteride and Minox. There are other guys with NW#3 patterns who do not benefit as much from the medications. More severe hair loss does not automatically mean less effective results from the medications, etc.

» I do not know any additional facts. What I have said on this thread is
» just my personal opinion.
»
»
»
»
» I do not beleive that ARI’s treatment will be effective on 100% of all
» patients because this is uncommon in the hair loss industry.
»
» Finasteride, Minoxidil . . . according to our understanding of science
» these kinds of medications should theoretically be effective on everyone.
» But they are not. They are effective on most patients but there are
» usually 10% or more who do not regrow/maintain hair from them. So I expect
» this pattern to repeat for ARI’s treatment in the future, even though we do
» not currently have a specific reason to expect it. I am just trying to
» keep my expectations realistic.
»
»
» However I do not think that guys with severe loss should dispair over
» this. There are guys losing hair in aggressive NW#6 and NW#7 patterns who
» benefit greatly from using Finasteride and Minox. There are other guys
» with NW#3 patterns who do not benefit as much from the medications. More
» severe hair loss does not automatically mean less effective results from
» the medications, etc.

Say it does work on the majority of people and that it has the potential to restore even 50 percent of a norwood 7 original density and coverage then this will absolutely amazing. If it gets best results in conjunction wit a HT then so be it. Say you used your donor area to get another 25 percent to supplement ARI, its possible that a norwood 7 could have around 70 percent of the original hair. Thats an amazing return. The fact that it might not restore 100 percent hair is not the end of the world by any means because to be honest we have got nothin right now!

» I do not know any additional facts. What I have said on this thread is
» just my personal opinion.
»
»
»
»
» I do not beleive that ARI’s treatment will be effective on 100% of all
» patients because this is uncommon in the hair loss industry.
»
» Finasteride, Minoxidil . . . according to our understanding of science
» these kinds of medications should theoretically be effective on everyone.
» But they are not. They are effective on most patients but there are
» usually 10% or more who do not regrow/maintain hair from them. So I expect
» this pattern to repeat for ARI’s treatment in the future, even though we do
» not currently have a specific reason to expect it. I am just trying to
» keep my expectations realistic.
»
»
» However I do not think that guys with severe loss should dispair over
» this. There are guys losing hair in aggressive NW#6 and NW#7 patterns who
» benefit greatly from using Finasteride and Minox. There are other guys
» with NW#3 patterns who do not benefit as much from the medications. More
» severe hair loss does not automatically mean less effective results from
» the medications, etc.

Thank you :slight_smile:

Now its clear. I kinda like your thinking. And you are absolutely right it wont work 100% on 100% of people which means that some people will not get their 100% Regrow Rate.

Am i correct so far?

I think that some cases will actually undergo two or more treatments because in your first treatment there is some peach hair and in the second treatment this peachy hair will be terminal and so on.

I personally believe that the treatment has to be done as long as you have your personal satisfying result.

So even if you have to wait another 3 years for market entry, you sill need at least 1 and a half year for several treatements

I really wouldn’t mind having to get 2-3 treatments. Heck, it could be 5-6 … they’re just basically scalp injections right? You could probably get back to work without wearing a cap within a day or two if not right away.

I wonder if it will be available first in Japan or at the same time worldwide if it does work out.

» I really wouldn’t mind having to get 2-3 treatments. Heck, it could be 5-6
» … they’re just basically scalp injections right? You could probably get
» back to work without wearing a cap within a day or two if not right away.
»
» I wonder if it will be available first in Japan or at the same time
» worldwide if it does work out.

I personally think the first release will be in Japan, sorry. But hey i can speak a little bit japanese and i like this country so “Ganbatte kudasai” :slight_smile:

But i think as an indicator it will be like this

NW1 : 1 treatment
NW2 : 1 Treatment
NW3 : 1,5 Treatments (which means only parts who wont have that kind of regrow)

NW4 : 2 Treatments Definitely
NW5 : Also 2 Treatments for diffuse patients and 3 for blanks

NW6 : could be 4 Treatements
NW 7 : 4 to 5 Treatments

But one thing will be clear for sure, we all will need a FUE for our hairline THATS i Fact, sorry but i think this will be essential. :expressionless:

Cause in the vertex area it totally doenst matter if you have a lot of hair growing, in the vertex area all that matters is “DENSITY”

But in the frontal area, well you have to design a good line, at least if you want your appearance like a NW0 :slight_smile:

What do i think about permanent hair

I say yes should be permanent but only because the peach hair is growing out of “dead plains”

Cause everybody knows, that this peach hair is the final state before the hair “vanishes” permanently.

So this thing is like “Going backwards in the cycle of Hairgrow”.

Thats also the reason why Histogen witnessed significant Grow one Year later, cause your hair has to undergo a regulaire cycle.

So there is unfortunately no chance that you will get a full head of hair directly, you have to be patient.

The only thing i personally hope is, that the costs wont be that harsh if you need multiple treatments.

Lets say what we know now.

There is a 50% regrow (as ari said) i say let as assume we got only 30% with a low dose treatment.

For a bald NW, this wont be very interesting, but for a diffuse one this will be like Jesus second coming :wink:

Ask yourself 30% more density will look like totally perfect for a diffuse person, so we can assume that even with one treatment some people can be satisfied, thats all what matters.

I think the ari guys are testing their doses and treatments on differnt subjects, if you pay close attention to theyre handout you will see that they use exactly the prominent kind of Norwood candidates like

  1. totally bald
  2. Beginning state
  3. Diffuse (which a lot of patients suffer)

On the other hand they went all the extra mile for female Baldness, cause they are not toying with the slight receding ones, no they do their treatmet with the harshest scale suffering women. I appreciate this, cause i think

We guys are actually wimpys, cause men are accepted with hairloss but a woman is techniqually “destroyed”:frowning:

And therefore iam glad for all the females around who can hope for a better treatement then do some FUT crap.

I always cry when i see attractive women undergo a FUT procedure

The second I hear phase 3 is started, is when I will start getting excited about this.

if this fails i think i’m done following hair multiplication

I don’t see why FUE would be needed to recreate a hairline. Assuming ARI’s setup does not create hairs per-injection (1 injection = 1 hair or 1 follicle) then that means the injections could “fade” the new hair creation down to bare skin at the hairline. And probably do the job more naturally than any HT job ever could.

As for the density, I refuse to worry about it. 70% is great.

Everybody nitpicks any HM deal for talking about getting 70% or 80% or 90% and not 100%. But the bottom line is that when your original hair was down to 70% density, you probably had never even sensed that it was thinning yet.

you probably had never even sensed
» that it was thinning yet.

Absolutely bang on. If even 60 percent density could be achieved with good coverage on a previously bald scalp it would be an amazing result. I personally would be 32 if this comes to fruition. At 32 i dont need or want a pre teen hairine. I long for a nice manageable head of hair with good coverage and decent density.

» I do not know any additional facts. What I have said on this thread is
» just my personal opinion.
»
»
»
»
» I do not beleive that ARI’s treatment will be effective on 100% of all
» patients because this is uncommon in the hair loss industry.
»
» Finasteride, Minoxidil . . . according to our understanding of science
» these kinds of medications should theoretically be effective on everyone.
» But they are not.

minox and fina are not based on YOUR stem cells