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Aderans + Acell?


#1

I wonder if Aderans might try mixing Acell with its procedure to improve the results?

I wonder if they’re already trying it.


#2

I wonder if you wonder nobody cares about your silly questions about non-existent treatments.


#3

» I wonder if Aderans might try mixing Acell with its procedure to improve
» the results?
»
» I wonder if they’re already trying it.

If they are smart they’re giving it a try. Hopefully it’s one of the iterations of their procedure which they’re testing in phase two.


#4

» I wonder if you wonder nobody cares about your silly questions about
» non-existent treatments.

ahaha… totally agree. Sometimes this board seems a competition between people to make the best stupid question.


#5

» » I wonder if you wonder nobody cares about your silly questions about
» » non-existent treatments.
»
» ahaha… totally agree. Sometimes this board seems a competition between
» people to make the best stupid question.

… and I wonder if you two could shut-up?

I thought it was a reasonable question. Aderans is still in the thick of Phase II, so all options/ variations remain on the table.


#6

» » » I wonder if you wonder nobody cares about your silly questions about
» » » non-existent treatments.
» »
» » ahaha… totally agree. Sometimes this board seems a competition
» between
» » people to make the best stupid question.
»
» … and I wonder if you two could shut-up?
»
» I thought it was a reasonable question. Aderans is still in the thick of
» Phase II, so all options/ variations remain on the table.

Ok Mr rev, but use you’re brain… do you think a bio-researcher or a vantures company needs to read this GREAT IDEAS on a baldness forum?
They know all, before you read something in a blog or in a forum… so, useless questions!


#7

» » » » I wonder if you wonder nobody cares about your silly questions about
» » » » non-existent treatments.
» » »
» » » ahaha… totally agree. Sometimes this board seems a competition
» » between
» » » people to make the best stupid question.
» »
» » … and I wonder if you two could shut-up?
» »
» » I thought it was a reasonable question. Aderans is still in the thick
» of
» » Phase II, so all options/ variations remain on the table.
» -------------
» Ok Mr rev, but use you’re brain… do you think a bio-researcher or a
» vantures company needs to read this GREAT IDEAS on a baldness forum?
» They know all, before you read something in a blog or in a forum… so,
» useless questions!

NOPE! This is completely UNTRUE.

Video:

Related Article (+ “experts” comments):


#8

» » » » I wonder if you wonder nobody cares about your silly questions about
» » » » non-existent treatments.
» » »
» » » ahaha… totally agree. Sometimes this board seems a competition
» » between
» » » people to make the best stupid question.
» »
» » … and I wonder if you two could shut-up?
» »
» » I thought it was a reasonable question. Aderans is still in the thick
» of
» » Phase II, so all options/ variations remain on the table.
»
» Ok Mr rev, but use you’re brain… do you think a bio-researcher or a
» vantures company needs to read this GREAT IDEAS on a baldness forum?
» They know all, before you read something in a blog or in a forum… so,
» useless questions!

I do.

Alhtough with all the useless bickering and name calling that goes on here, it’s no wonder some might think this site unworthy of serious attention.


#9

» » » » » I wonder if you wonder nobody cares about your silly questions
» about
» » » » » non-existent treatments.
» » » »
» » » » ahaha… totally agree. Sometimes this board seems a competition
» » » between
» » » » people to make the best stupid question.
» » »
» » » … and I wonder if you two could shut-up?
» » »
» » » I thought it was a reasonable question. Aderans is still in the thick
» » of
» » » Phase II, so all options/ variations remain on the table.
» »
» » Ok Mr rev, but use you’re brain… do you think a bio-researcher or a
» » vantures company needs to read this GREAT IDEAS on a baldness forum?
» » They know all, before you read something in a blog or in a forum… so,
» » useless questions!
»
» I do.
»
» Alhtough with all the useless bickering and name calling that goes on
» here, it’s no wonder some might think this site unworthy of serious
» attention.

People do research. People are fallible. It’s not outside the realm of possibility that researchers can get ideas from the net, which is just a big repository of information, guesses and conclusions.

If researchers really “know all” then why all the fuss about this latest Acell finding? Shouldn’t this be something that immediately was known - through and through - on account of researchers knowing everything?

It was a perfectly sensible question. Though I think the real question might be if FDA would allow them to introduce it, in case it wasn’t already part of a protocol-variation.


#10

» It was a perfectly sensible question. Though I think the real question
» might be if FDA would allow them to introduce it, in case it wasn’t already
» part of a protocol-variation.

It’s a good question. But, instead of Aderans, i’m more interested in what Acell could do for Follica. They were considering using drugs to control and promote their hair growth after wounding. What if they were able to accomplish this with Acell? If it worked, would it allow them to circumvent FDA trials all together? I don’t see why not - safety would not be an issue as Acell is already FDA approved. It seems plausible that all it would require would be a trial to demonstrate proof of concept.


#11

» » It was a perfectly sensible question. Though I think the real question
» » might be if FDA would allow them to introduce it, in case it wasn’t
» already
» » part of a protocol-variation.
»
» It’s a good question. But, instead of Aderans, i’m more interested in
» what Acell could do for Follica. They were considering using drugs to
» control and promote their hair growth after wounding. What if they were
» able to accomplish this with Acell? If it worked, would it allow them to
» circumvent FDA trials all together? I don’t see why not - safety would not
» be an issue as Acell is already FDA approved. It seems plausible that all
» it would require would be a trial to demonstrate proof of concept.

I totally agree. It would seem that Follica would be very interested in Acell. But what Dr. Hartzig is trying out right now is also interesting. He is combining PRP and Acell and injecting the combination into the scalp to see if he can repair recently miniaturized follicles. I wish he would also try… first wounding a completely bald area of the scalp and then applying the PRP/Acell to see if he can repair completely miniaturized follicles. Maybe he will do this in the future.


#12

» I totally agree. It would seem that Follica would be very interested in
» Acell. But what Dr. Hartzig is trying out right now is also interesting.
» He is combining PRP and Acell and injecting the combination into the scalp
» to see if he can repair recently miniaturized follicles. I wish he would
» also try… first wounding a completely bald area of the scalp and then
» applying the PRP/Acell to see if he can repair completely miniaturized
» follicles. Maybe he will do this in the future.

Yeah, I’m very curious to see if he can get results with PRP and Acell. If he does, that would be amazing. But, without the wounding step, i’m not as hopeful, just because it seems that it’s necessary to activate/recruit the local stem cells. Maybe the injections themselves are enough of a wound? Or maybe the Acell can activate/recruit them by itself. I thought he mentioned something to that effect in his presentation. Can’t recall exactly…

If it’s not too expensive, i’d be willing to give this a try. At the least, you get a PRP treatmen. Which, at a minimum, would probably help the hair out a little bit, temporarily. I need this to work and need it soon!


#13

» » It was a perfectly sensible question. Though I think the real question
» » might be if FDA would allow them to introduce it, in case it wasn’t
» already
» » part of a protocol-variation.
»
» It’s a good question. But, instead of Aderans, i’m more interested in
» what Acell could do for Follica. They were considering using drugs to
» control and promote their hair growth after wounding. What if they were
» able to accomplish this with Acell? If it worked, would it allow them to
» circumvent FDA trials all together? I don’t see why not - safety would not
» be an issue as Acell is already FDA approved. It seems plausible that all
» it would require would be a trial to demonstrate proof of concept.

I don’t think it would help the Follica method at all, Follica are using the wounding as a window to push the skin into generating follicles instead of healing over like it normally would. All Acell would do if applied to wounded skin would help it heal better, it wouldn’t provide the push towards follicle formation from what I’ve read. For Acell to help hair growth I think it needs to be injected like Hitzig is doing now mixed with PRP.

If I’ve got that all wrong I apologise:-D


#14

»
» I don’t think it would help the Follica method at all, Follica are using
» the wounding as a window to push the skin into generating follicles instead
» of healing over like it normally would. All Acell would do if applied to
» wounded skin would help it heal better, it wouldn’t provide the push
» towards follicle formation from what I’ve read. For Acell to help hair
» growth I think it needs to be injected like Hitzig is doing now mixed with
» PRP.
»
» If I’ve got that all wrong I apologise:-D

Good point and you may be right.

However, Acell has shown remarkable ability to assist in the healing process - and it’s this healing process which is at the core of Follica’s technique. I know in some of Follica’s patents they were looking at using different types of growth stimulators, such as minoxidil. Which we all know by now, has been shown to activate K+ ion channels and boost blood supply; things which assist in the healing process. Based on what Hitzig mentioned in his presentation, the Acell matrix contains a plethora of intra-cellular signaling components, proteins and collagen etc… That is, it acts as it’s own supply of growth factors and nutrients, providing a local environment that is conducive to cellular regeneration and new growth. He also mentioned that it not only recruits new stem cells to the healing area, but can stimulate them to revert to an embryonic like condition. It’s this embryonic-like ability which enables them to take on the characteristics of the surrounding tissue, form new follicles and stimulate old ones. Which (to me) sounds a whole lot like what follica was doing in the first place.

So, i admit that i’m speculating widely and could be completely wrong, but, i really feel that based on what Hitzig presented, follica would be interested in this. It has the “potential” to either boost their results or give them a new path forward.


#15

» »
» » I don’t think it would help the Follica method at all, Follica are
» using
» » the wounding as a window to push the skin into generating follicles
» instead
» » of healing over like it normally would. All Acell would do if applied
» to
» » wounded skin would help it heal better, it wouldn’t provide the push
» » towards follicle formation from what I’ve read. For Acell to help hair
» » growth I think it needs to be injected like Hitzig is doing now mixed
» with
» » PRP.
» »
» » If I’ve got that all wrong I apologise:-D
»
» Good point and you may be right.
»
» However, Acell has shown remarkable ability to assist in the healing
» process - and it’s this healing process which is at the core of Follica’s
» technique. I know in some of Follica’s patents they were looking at using
» different types of growth stimulators, such as minoxidil. Which we all
» know by now, has been shown to activate K+ ion channels and boost blood
» supply; things which assist in the healing process. Based on what Hitzig
» mentioned in his presentation, the Acell matrix contains a plethora of
» intra-cellular signaling components, proteins and collagen etc… That is,
» it acts as it’s own supply of growth factors and nutrients, providing a
» local environment that is conducive to cellular regeneration and new
» growth. He also mentioned that it not only recruits new stem cells to the
» healing area, but can stimulate them to revert to an embryonic like
» condition. It’s this embryonic-like ability which enables them to take on
» the characteristics of the surrounding tissue, form new follicles and
» stimulate old ones. Which (to me) sounds a whole lot like what follica was
» doing in the first place.
»
» So, i admit that i’m speculating widely and could be completely wrong,
» but, i really feel that based on what Hitzig presented, follica would be
» interested in this. It has the “potential” to either boost their results or
» give them a new path forward.

Regardless of what ultimately works, I just think it’s terrific that:

A) things that people on forums such as this one have been going over for about 3 years now is finally being given a serious look

B) that the tinkering is so transparent, with the researcher(s) in question even showing up to take questions, which they certainly do not have to do.

If you want to be all calculated about it all, you could draw the conclusion that any method that is given such transparency, is also a method that you either can’t slap a specific patent on, and/or is a method that is so low-stakes in risk that spreading it around (and making all the pieces fit with the help of collective wisdom) is beneficial for all doctors who want to encorporate the technique.

…OR the involved parties are just motivated by the science of it all, and care little about how to turn it into a billion-dollar machinery. This is also not out of the realm of possibility, and happens pretty frequently in IT, with enthusiast-coders working tirelessly to produce excellent software that they then give out for free. Some people are just satisfied with the intellectual challenge.

The fact that companies like Aderans/Follica/trichoscience(?) say next to nothing about the actual details of their procedures has almost nothing to do with efficiency, and pretty much everything to do with risk of intellectual property theft.

These known entities are, on the other hand, most assuredly in it for the money.

In light of this complete black-out on information (for better or worse), it’s nice to enjoy some transparency. That it’s potentially very effective as a MPB-treatment is just icing on the cake.


#16

Good post, i agree with everything you’ve said.

Money is a huge motivator. But, some scientists and doctors engage in research simply because they enjoy the intellectual challenge and want to make a meaninful contribtution to their field. I personally know a number of scientists who could easily make more money doing something other than lab research, but, they stick with it because they love it.

The transparency is great, and i hope they (Hitzig, Cooley etc…)continue to keep us informed as their new results become available.

On a side note. I have to say that these boards have become a lot more pleasant now that the natives have some (new and exciting) info to chew on


#17

All Acell would do if applied to
» wounded skin would help it heal better, it wouldn’t provide the push
» towards follicle formation from what I’ve read. For Acell to help hair
» growth I think it needs to be injected like Hitzig is doing now mixed with
» PRP.
»
» If I’ve got that all wrong I apologise:-D

I would think that the wounding would have to be deep enough to actually disrupt the miniaturized follicles before applying the Acell. That way not only the skin would heal but also the follicle would heal and hopefully start producing hairs again. Since Dr. Hirtzig is testing the Acell/PRP injections I would think it would not be very difficult for him to also test and see if wounding before applying the Acell/PRP combo would make the results more robust.