I am a nw4/nw5. It will not help folks like me, am I correct?
» I am a nw4/nw5. It will not help folks like me, am I correct?
No one knows for sure, but the idea is that it would stimulate the donor area from FUE to regrow the skin & hair follicles. If it works, potentially it could help provide “unlimited” donor hair for transplanting.
» » I am a nw4/nw5. It will not help folks like me, am I correct?
»
» No one knows for sure, but the idea is that it would stimulate the donor
» area from FUE to regrow the skin & hair follicles. If it works,
» potentially it could help provide “unlimited” donor hair for
» transplanting.
This is exciting news. There is no reason why it has to be FUE only, if it works on FUE holes, it should work on strip too. It may not be wise to get hair transplant now, if this Acell thing really works, we might be selling ourselves short getting HT now.
» I just noticed that the Acell powder is now available. It’s the latest link
» at: http://www.acell.com/
»
» You can order it right now… but the catch is that you must be a
» vet!
»
» BTW, I have emailed several HT/HM doctors about Acell. No word from anyone
» on the Follica team. I’ll try again in September and see if I can meet with
» at least some of them in person. I’ve also emailed the plastic surgeons in
» Italy and they are very interested and said they would follow up on it.
»
» All the best,
» BB
Hi BB,
I’m not looking to rain on the parade here, but a dose a realism seems to be in order.
The product you’re touting is very similar to one I made mention of sometime back on the old forums. It’s called Cymetra and is made by Lifecell(known for it’s Alloderm products) and it’s licenced under different names to a few companies - one of which I worked for. In one form or another, it’s been used around 1.5 million times in surgical applications.
Basically the product is a decellularized matrix that has the dna/rna components(what causes rejection) removed. It signals the body to repopulate with the local cells when applied properly AND followed up on properly.
What this means for HT’s:
Wound areas need to be kept moist - generally a bolster dressing with mineral oil (or equivalent) to prevent the surface from drying out. This would require that the entire area treated be shaved to at least stubble length.
That’s dressing stays on a week before it’s first changed - and great care still has to be taken not to dislodge the graft material during that change.
The hair on the human head is significantly different than the fur that grows on other animals. Dermis gets full multi-layer regrowth on a dog or mouse and you’re pretty much gonna get fur(that’s the programming) - not so with peoples scalps. Relatively scar free donor site healing would be expected - provided the matrix was applied to full wound depth and didn’t dislodge during the healing process. I wouldn’t hold out high hopes for follicular regeneration on the head. For body hair? Maybe. It would also allow for a slightly larger gauge needle to be used to prevent transsection of the follicle because scarring wouldn’t be as much of a concern(if the technique is capable of being developed that is). Would the BH grow back? I dunno… People more knowledgable about repopulation of BH with dermal regrowth would need to chime in. I don’t recall seeing it in adult human patients - but I was selling it for use in diabetic foot wounds, not much hair down there.
Personally, I pictured it being used in BHT’s and for strip closure/strip closure repair.
Just my 2cents - you never know, it may grow scalp hair. Body hair would be a better bet(and I still wouldn’t like the odds) - like to see some research done their first - and starting very small(a few grafts at most) is the only sane way to go about it.
http://www.lifecell.com/products/14/
That doesn’t really look like ACELL very much to me to be honest.
We are not going to know until somebody TRIES IT. You’d think with a financial gold mine in the offing—and now that they “know” about it over at ACELL, they’d be itching to give it a shot. There is a world of men with baldspots on the backs of their heads willing to try.
Actually, I think it would be better to cut a small piece of flesh out of the back of the head—FUE-STYLE----and apply the ACELL and see if they have something. It would only take one man to find out if they had something here.
» http://www.lifecell.com/products/14/
»
»
»
» That doesn’t really look like ACELL very much to me to be honest.
»
»
»
» We are not going to know until somebody TRIES IT. You’d think with a
» financial gold mine in the offing—and now that they “know” about it over
» at ACELL, they’d be itching to give it a shot. There is a world of men with
» baldspots on the backs of their heads willing to try.
»
»
» Actually, I think it would be better to cut a small piece of flesh out of
» the back of the head—FUE-STYLE----and apply the ACELL and see if they
» have something. It would only take one man to find out if they had
» something here.
Acell products are acellular scaffolds derived from porcine bladders.
Cymetra and Alloderm are acellular scaffolds derived from human dermis.
It’s also marketed under names like GraftJacket for Ortho applications.
http://www.wmt.com/graftjacket/physicians/product_overview.asp
The above is Alloderm under a different name. The cryofractured flowable version is exactly the same as Cymetra, which is shattered into a powder w/o denaturing it.
They’re both used for bladder suspension, abdominal wall reconstruction, tendon reconstruction etc…
Cymetra and Alloderm are used extensively in cosmetic and reconstructive plastic surgery - burn victims etc…
It’s the same stuff, it’s just derived from different sources. On the plus side the Acell product should be cheaper.
I sold this stuff for years - I’ve got a very high degree of confidence that I know exactly what I’m looking at. Competitors have been making patches from bovine and porcine sources for years, as well as the foreskins from infant circumcisions. Acell is just doing what Lifecell has been doing for years - removing the cellular components - except with pig bladders.
We’ll see…
You sound like you know what you are talking about…and I am not going to pretend that I have researched the Acell product enough to debate its mechanisms with you…my only questions are this :
1). If the Acell matrix is the same as the products the other companies you
mentioned produce, how was it possible for Acell to apply for and be
rewarded a patent ???
2). Why would Perdue University and Cook biotech take the time and spend the
money to fight Acell for this patent in a federal court ??? When the
product has been available on the market for years … It doesn’t make
sense to me.
» You sound like you know what you are talking about…and I am not going to
» pretend that I have researched the Acell product enough to debate its
» mechanisms with you…my only questions are this :
»
» 1). If the Acell matrix is the same as the products the other companies
» you
» mentioned produce, how was it possible for Acell to apply for and be
» rewarded a patent ???
»
» 2). Why would Perdue University and Cook biotech take the time and spend
» the
» money to fight Acell for this patent in a federal court ??? When the
» product has been available on the market for years … It doesn’t make
»
» sense to me.
-
Lifecell uses a diffused enzymatic wash to achieve their result. Acell’s process may or may not be different enough for their patent to hold up. Now that Acell is entering the human market - believe you me, Lifecell will be taking a very close look. Acell has been 510(k) processing their stuff into the market - which means that there are already similar enough products on the market so a complete investigation phase isn’t required - it means that it is not completely different than stuff that is already out there. If the process is different enough or Lifecell was foolish enough to specify their technology for human tissue only - then Lifecell is shit out of luck.
-
I don’t know the particulars of the Perdue/Cook suit. Research agreement? Parallel tech? Patent infringement? All I know is the case was allowed to die in the shuffle stage, so it’s a moot point.
This is really great stuff when used properly. Diabetic wounds are a fucking horror show to heal - and these products are very effective. They have tons of medical applications.
But…
These products are extremely expensive in the human market. Something in the range of a $1,000 for a 9^cm graft and $1,100 for 2cc of the flowable when derived from human tissue. I hope Acell is safe from litigation. It appears the product is equivalent and should provide a supply/cost route available to people that really need it - and alot of people need this type of stuff.
But…
Some of the press is pretty hyped up - like the fingertip growing back.
Gents - fifty years ago if you cut off a fingertip(to the point where only a little of the nail bed was left, a good 3/4 inch of finger) a doc would just sew your finger into a stab hole in your own belly, then after a period of time it would be cut away. Lots of people grew those tips back. They most often didn’t look as nice as the example on the video - but there they were. I worked with a fella back when I was in my teens(25 years ago) that had it done. It ain’t no miracle.
Having hair form/regrow/regenerate/etc on the adult human scalp is a royal pain in the ass. Lifecell stuff has been applied there - if the new skin had been repopulated with hair, I think someone would have mentioned it already.
I certainly haven’t heard anything about it, but…
Hey, you never know. Just don’t get your hopes up more than a very little bit.
» » You sound like you know what you are talking about…and I am not going
» to
» » pretend that I have researched the Acell product enough to debate its
» » mechanisms with you…my only questions are this :
» »
» » 1). If the Acell matrix is the same as the products the other companies
» » you
» » mentioned produce, how was it possible for Acell to apply for and be
»
» » rewarded a patent ???
» »
» » 2). Why would Perdue University and Cook biotech take the time and
» spend
» » the
» » money to fight Acell for this patent in a federal court ??? When
» the
» » product has been available on the market for years … It doesn’t
» make
» »
» » sense to me.
»
»
» 1) Lifecell uses a diffused enzymatic wash to achieve their result.
» Acell’s process may or may not be different enough for their patent to
» hold up. Now that Acell is entering the human market - believe you me,
» Lifecell will be taking a very close look. Acell has been 510(k)
» processing their stuff into the market - which means that there are
» already similar enough products on the market so a complete investigation
» phase isn’t required - it means that it is not completely different than
» stuff that is already out there. If the process is different enough or
» Lifecell was foolish enough to specify their technology for human tissue
» only - then Lifecell is shit out of luck.
»
» 2) I don’t know the particulars of the Perdue/Cook suit. Research
» agreement? Parallel tech? Patent infringement? All I know is the case was
» allowed to die in the shuffle stage, so it’s a moot point.
»
» -----
» This is really great stuff when used properly. Diabetic wounds are a
» fucking horror show to heal - and these products are very effective. They
» have tons of medical applications.
»
» But…
»
» These products are extremely expensive in the human market. Something in
» the range of a $1,000 for a 9^cm graft and $1,100 for 2cc of the flowable
» when derived from human tissue. I hope Acell is safe from litigation. It
» appears the product is equivalent and should provide a supply/cost route
» available to people that really need it - and alot of people need this
» type of stuff.
»
» But…
»
» Some of the press is pretty hyped up - like the fingertip growing back.
» Gents - fifty years ago if you cut off a fingertip(to the point where only
» a little of the nail bed was left, a good 3/4 inch of finger) a doc would
» just sew your finger into a stab hole in your own belly, then after a
» period of time it would be cut away. Lots of people grew those tips back.
» They most often didn’t look as nice as the example on the video - but
» there they were. I worked with a fella back when I was in my teens(25
» years ago) that had it done. It ain’t no miracle.
»
» Having hair form/regrow/regenerate/etc on the adult human scalp is a royal
» pain in the ass. Lifecell stuff has been applied there - if the new skin
» had been repopulated with hair, I think someone would have mentioned it
» already.
»
» I certainly haven’t heard anything about it, but…
»
» Hey, you never know. Just don’t get your hopes up more than a very little
» bit.
So is A-cell a bust?
Shredded, could you please explain the difference between dog (fur) and human hair a little more (if you have time)…I dont understand this statement :
The hair on the human head is significantly different than the fur that grows on other animals. Dermis gets full multi-layer regrowth(?) on a dog or mouse and you’re pretty much gonna get fur(that’s the programming) - not so with peoples scalps
After reading your posts and reading about Cymetra and Alloderm, I agree that Acell is a similar product…this is one of the differences between Acell and other companies ECM products that Acell highlights on their website (taken directly from Acell website)
Urinary Bladder is Ideal Scaffold Material
The extracellular matrix of the ACell scaffold technology is derived from the urinary bladder of pigs and is referred to as UBM (Urinary Bladder Matrix). Following mechanical and chemical processing that eliminates the superficial cellular layer, and substantially all of the deeper muscular layers of the urinary bladder, the remaining acellular matrix represents ideal scaffold material.
UBM scaffold technology is distinguished from other ECM scaffold technology by its unique bimodal surface characteristics. One surface consists of basement membrane ECM and the opposite surface consists of non-basement membrane ECM. The ECM consists of a collection of both structural and functional proteins that are arranged in a three-dimensional ultra structure that is virtually impossible to replicate in the laboratory. The technical approach of other companies in the field of tissue engineering usually involves the use of one or more of the components of the ECM scaffold. For example, purified Type I collagen has been extensively used as a scaffold for skin repair, plastic surgery, and repair of the lower urinary tract. Likewise, growth factors found in the ECM, such as vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) and basic fibroblast growth factor (BFGF), are used therapeutically to stimulate the growth of new blood vessels and the proliferation of connective tissue cells.
We believe that the ACell UBM contains the appropriate ratio of structural and functional molecules for optimal wound healing and accounts for the observed biologic response that is characteristic of the ACell UBM technology.
you stated that Lifecell has already applied their product to scalps for wound healing…it would be interesting to follow up on that
» So is A-cell a bust?
Personally, I’m very doubtful.
Mind you, I’ve worked for several of these companies and I know that the vast majority of what they put forth are the very best case scenarios.
I’m more than somewhat familiar with this technology. I’ve seen it going into patients. And as a guy that’s been through the HT mill in the early 90’s, I was more than a little curious when I first was exposed to it. I just wasn’t given any info that would make me think it would do what’s being discussed here on the board.
Just my opinion.
» Shredded, could you please explain the difference between dog (fur) and
» human hair a little more (if you have time)…I dont understand this
» statement :
»
» The hair on the human head is significantly different than the fur that
» grows on other animals. Dermis gets full multi-layer regrowth(?)
» on a dog or mouse and you’re pretty much gonna get fur(that’s the
» programming) - not so with peoples scalps
»
» After reading your posts and reading about Cymetra and Alloderm, I agree
» that Acell is a similar product…this is one of the differences between
» Acell and other companies ECM products that Acell highlights on their
» website (taken directly from Acell website)
»
» Urinary Bladder is Ideal Scaffold Material
» The extracellular matrix of the ACell scaffold technology is derived from
» the urinary bladder of pigs and is referred to as UBM (Urinary Bladder
» Matrix). Following mechanical and chemical processing that eliminates the
» superficial cellular layer, and substantially all of the deeper muscular
» layers of the urinary bladder, the remaining acellular matrix represents
» ideal scaffold material.
»
» UBM scaffold technology is distinguished from other ECM scaffold
» technology by its unique bimodal surface characteristics. One surface
» consists of basement membrane ECM and the opposite surface consists of
» non-basement membrane ECM. The ECM consists of a collection of both
» structural and functional proteins that are arranged in a
» three-dimensional ultra structure that is virtually impossible to
» replicate in the laboratory. The technical approach of other companies in
» the field of tissue engineering usually involves the use of one or more of
» the components of the ECM scaffold. For example, purified Type I collagen
» has been extensively used as a scaffold for skin repair, plastic surgery,
» and repair of the lower urinary tract. Likewise, growth factors found in
» the ECM, such as vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) and basic
» fibroblast growth factor (BFGF), are used therapeutically to stimulate the
» growth of new blood vessels and the proliferation of connective tissue
» cells.
»
» We believe that the ACell UBM contains the appropriate ratio of structural
» and functional molecules for optimal wound healing and accounts for the
» observed biologic response that is characteristic of the ACell UBM
» technology.
»
»
» you stated that Lifecell has already applied their product to
» scalps for wound healing…it would be interesting to follow up on
» that
I wrote you a long reply and lost it by getting timed out.
I’ll try again tomorrow - bedtime.
»
» I wrote you a long reply and lost it by getting timed out.
» I’ll try again tomorrow - bedtime.
Sorry Shredded…thats has happened to me a couple of times too…I was very pissed 
when it happened…very frustrating
one thing I do now if I write a long post that I think might have timed out is to select it all…and copy it (I done paste it anywhere…just copy it) before I try to submit it…and then if it is timed out, I open the “write box” up again and paste what I have copied into it…and then it will send…
» Shredded, could you please explain the difference between dog (fur) and
» human hair a little more (if you have time)…I dont understand this
» statement :
»
» The hair on the human head is significantly different than the fur that
» grows on other animals. Dermis gets full multi-layer regrowth(?)
» on a dog or mouse and you’re pretty much gonna get fur(that’s the
» programming) - not so with peoples scalps
Studies on the Lifecell product were done on mice, canines and primates. When skin grew back to full thickness/depth, the areas(for the most part) of the skin of these specimens populalated with enough follicles to provide coverage of the area. But this was not always the case, in some of the cases skin did not grow back to full depth. Papillary, reticular and basement layers came back, but were thinner. In these cases the specimens were much less likely to see coverage or even any marked regrowth of hair with normal characteristics.
I’m a salesman - not a scientist, so I can only pass along what I was told in the terms that I was able to understand. Humans have fur too, referred to as body hair. It varies in density and to what degree of growth from individual to individual. Every year at the beach we see the guy that looks like he’s wearing a sweater. He’s covered with a layer of fur that reaches a fixed length in it’s growth phase, sheds sometime later and then regrows again sometime after it’s rest phase. Same as lots of other mammals. The fur of dogs etc… have different characteristics(cycling, layers, lengths and densities) but are similar enough to (sort of) fall in the same category. The more skin fully heals, the more follicles may form, and more follicles may take on the programmed characteristics - happens enough and you’ve got coverage.
Not so with adult human scalp hair. The overwhelming majority of people have a fixed count of hair, with the desired charactristics, that is set around the onset of puberty. I’m sure you’ve seen men that have had sub-cutaneous ballons placed under the scalp for alopecia. When done right, you wind up with someone that has coverage - but his hair count has seen no substantive positive change - he has a diffuse head of hair. He may lay down some new follicles as he lays down new tissue - but those follicles don’t seem to differentiate into normal scalp hair to any significant degree.
Pre-pubescents are quite a bit different in this regard. Put a ballon into a kid’s scalp and he is much more likely to lay down new tissue and much less susceptable to stretching. More importantly, he is much more likely to lay down follicles and that those follicles will then differentiate into normal scalp hair. I’ve seen a case study where a 4 yo was attacked by a dog and had most of his scalp torn off. He had a partial horseshoe left. Standard grafting was done and ballons were placed under his remaining scalp. Over a period of 2 1/2 - 3 years what was left of his scalp was expanded over the dome and the grafting was incrementally removed. At 7 years of age he had a thick head of hair - for this to happen with an adult would seem to be the equivalent of hitting multiple lottery jackpots.
»
» After reading your posts and reading about Cymetra and Alloderm, I agree
» that Acell is a similar product…this is one of the differences between
» Acell and other companies ECM products that Acell highlights on their
» website (taken directly from Acell website)
»
» Urinary Bladder is Ideal Scaffold Material
» The extracellular matrix of the ACell scaffold technology is derived from
» the urinary bladder of pigs and is referred to as UBM (Urinary Bladder
» Matrix). Following mechanical and chemical processing that eliminates the
» superficial cellular layer, and substantially all of the deeper muscular
» layers of the urinary bladder, the remaining acellular matrix represents
» ideal scaffold material.
»
» UBM scaffold technology is distinguished from other ECM scaffold
» technology by its unique bimodal surface characteristics. One surface
» consists of basement membrane ECM and the opposite surface consists of
» non-basement membrane ECM. The ECM consists of a collection of both
» structural and functional proteins that are arranged in a
» three-dimensional ultra structure that is virtually impossible to
» replicate in the laboratory. The technical approach of other companies in
» the field of tissue engineering usually involves the use of one or more of
» the components of the ECM scaffold. For example, purified Type I collagen
» has been extensively used as a scaffold for skin repair, plastic surgery,
» and repair of the lower urinary tract. Likewise, growth factors found in
» the ECM, such as vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) and basic
» fibroblast growth factor (BFGF), are used therapeutically to stimulate the
» growth of new blood vessels and the proliferation of connective tissue
» cells.
»
» We believe that the ACell UBM contains the appropriate ratio of structural
» and functional molecules for optimal wound healing and accounts for the
» observed biologic response that is characteristic of the ACell UBM
» technology.
Except that Acell is using porcine bladders, the above description mirrors that of Lifecell. Please note that the characteristics of the tissue are equivalent and that once the cellular material is removed the same result should be expected. This is important because Lifecell’s product is harvested from human donors - supply is limited and expensive. Acell’s product is only limited by the number of livestock that they can raise for this purpose, hopefully they can make an impact from the price side.
Lifecell’s product contains the basement membrane and the reticular layer(non-basement ala Acell) of human skin. The adipose tissue, the papillary layer and the epidermis are stripped away in the processing.
Look down the page at the surgical techniques for Xpress and ulcer repair here(it gives a better description of the product and shows what it can do with diabetic wounds - few things are more difficult to heal):
http://www.wmt.com/Physicians/Products/Biologics/GraftJacketUlcerRepair.asp
»
»
» you stated that Lifecell has already applied their product to
» scalps for wound healing…it would be interesting to follow up on
» that
From my end - I haven’t heard any big news.
On a side note:
For this to applicable in FUE’s and BHT’s, a surgical technique would need to be carefully developed. You can’t just pour the powder on a persons scalp or chest and then smear it into the punch wounds. This would damage the matrix and nullify what makes it work so well. It would also likely provoke an inflammatory response which would mean that the body would likely either encapsulate it or expel it. The graft would need to be delivered to full depth of the wound or you’ll just see less scarring on the surface while fibrous tissue forms beneath it. Even done perfectly, this by no means implies a follicle will form. Scarring would be, for all intents and purposes, eliminated. Plus, because these sites remodel so well, normal pigmentation of the skin can be expected.
Strip closures and revision would be tough, too. These grafts don’t do well when under tension or any significant compression. But, if a surgeoen could figure a technique out, the patient would wind up with skin with normal characteristics as opposed to scar tissue which often causes(in my case certainly) many undesired results.
Thanks for the info shredded…I understand what you are saying about full thickness dermis…thanks for taking the time to explain this stuff 