» Here is a challenge to Willy:
»
» What is your proposed mechanism for how Acell would regrow hair?
You do realise that MOST of the posters here hope it will elliminate scars from strip surgeries don’t you? using wound healing capabilities.
Growing hair would be an unexpected bonus.
» Your “theory” (for lack of a better word) seems to imply that the
» Extra-Cellular Matrix somehow encourages the growth of fresh tissue PLUS
» everything associated with that tissue, including brand new hair
» follicles.
Well infact it does, ecm’s have show to regrow tissue to there local surroundings.
» OK. I think we can all agree that the evidence indicates that the ECM
» does indeed promote the regrowth of fresh, new tissue, which helps to
» restore the initial conditions before a wound. In other words, it somehow
» discourages the accumulation of scar tissue (fibrous tissue), and
» encourages the growth of new, healthy tissue.
This is true, When you are wounded it is your bodys first reaction to heal the wound (by regenerating healthy tissue) but after a certain amount of time your body will send the signal to scar over, the reason for this is to close the wound as soon as possible to prevent infection/disease. What acell and other ECM’s do is postpone or delay the accumulation of fibrous tissue enough for the wound to heal fully or fully enough that a scar is not noticable to the eye.
» By the way, everyone should know that Acell is really nothing new – there
» are lots of companies and products out there in the market, or under
» development, which are doing, or claim to do, the exact same thing as
» Acell, in the very same way – with an Extra-Cellular Matrix.
We all know that acell is not new, if you bothered to look back through the forum you would realize that we have discused this to death before.
We know about other ecm’s we know about older genreation ecm’s, we know how they differ from acell and we know that the release of acell was delayed by almost a decade due to OTHER ecm’s.
We know that it regrew a finger tip, we know about some companies investingating ecm’s for organ growth, we also know about the U.S military testing it.
We are not stupid we are able to research.
If you bothered to read you would realize that willy wasn’t even the first person to bring acell to this board. It had been discussed numerouse times before willy picked it up, he was just the first person to pick it up and contact the company for info.
» So, how is it growing brand new hair follicles? Where’s the evidence for
» that? Is there even one tiny little shred of evidence? Something real
» that we can grasp onto?
We all know that the animal cases regrew most if not all the fur, but some of the cases had big, wide, deep wounds with minimal flesh growing and no hair.
We all know that animals can regrow fur easier than we can regrow hair but some of these had their wounds for over a year which would never have grown back. They were completely heald.
Before you say, it is possible for a furry animal’s wound to heal with fur never growing back.
There you go, evidence of acell regrowing hair that you can grasp onto (what, if your going to get perdantic so am I, you didn’t say human evidence :-P).
I assume you know that animal studies can be a good inication of what to expect on a human study, its often where they start.
If you bothered to read what we write, we have told you before that acell growing hair on a human would be a nice supprize, what most hope for is to put the wound healing capabilities to use and aid in creating scarless strip ht’s.
» If there is even the slightest little tiny shred of evidence that Acell,
» or any kind of ECM, is able to grow new hair follicles on new skin, I would
» like to see it!
See above.
I’d like to point out that it regenerates tissue localy, if you have a fresh wound the theory is that it will regenerate tissue identicall to that of its surroundings, i.e complete healing and no scarring.
ECM’s have has also aided in the regeneration/growth of some very complicated organs/organ components in humans.
» Do you realise that just because a product can regrow new healthy skin,
» does not mean that it is also able to grow new hair follicles in that
» skin?
FOR CRYING OUT LOUD WE HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS FROM THE START, IF THERE IS A CHANCE IT IS WORTH INVESTIGATING. You don’t know if it won’t regrow hair as much as we know it will.
» Do you realise that the hair follicle is a separate entity from the skin,
» a separate organ, that develops in a completely different way from the
» skin, and is genetically programmed to grow from the embryonic stage of
» life?
Yes, so is skin, the largest and one of the most complicated organ in the human body which is also programed to grow at an embryonic stage and can be triggered to regrow after.
» There are literally hundreds of scientists around the world, maybe
» thousands, doing experiments with things like ECM, trying to regrow limbs,
» fingers, organs, etc. on mice, rabbits, monkeys, cats, dogs, and humans.
Yes we have posted this up time and time before, ecm’s have succesfully aided in regenerating a plethora of complicated HUMAN internal organs from bladders, to wind pipes, to lungs and parts af a heart, many more aswell.
» This kind of experimentation with ECM and other things like it has been
» going on a long time, at least a decade. Acell is only one of MANY
» biotech companies that has been working with ECM, trying to foster better
» wound healing and similar medical benefits.
WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING THIS FOR A REALLY LONG TIME, GET WITH THE PROGRAM.
» But not once have we ever heard of any of these companies or scientists,
» anywhere, claiming that in conjunction with the regrowth of new skin, it is
» also growing new hair follicles.
Maybe, because untill now nobody has been looking at it for its capabilities in regenerating hair follicles. I’m sure it has been used in a lot of other applications that we haven’t heard of, just because you don’t know about it doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened.
» And there are A LOT of scientists out there who would love to grow new
» hair follicles, because they know it would make them a lot of money.
Agreed, but Acell as a company are not interested in testing their product or marketing for MPB because it would cost use a lot of resources and money that they don’t have, they are much more interested in licensing it to other companies so they can inverstigate it themselves, this would also generate acell a sh*t load of revenue.
They seem to be more focused on the wound healing/ organ repair.
Don’t forge the only people really interested in curing MPB is those who have MPB.
» So, why all this focus on Acell? Why now? Why all the excitement about
» a company that is not unique, that is simply re-hashing experiments already
» done by other companies and other scientists, and none of them has EVER
» claimed to grow new hair?
Why not? if there is a chance that is can help, be it from regenerating hair or scarless H.T’s then it is worth a try, If it doesn’t work then oh well, at least we tried.
I think you should also look up the differenced between most other ECM’s on the market. Acell is sort of regarded as a second generation ecm where as most, if not all otheres are still first generation. The differences are among otheres where the cells were harvested from.
» Doesn’t it make sense that regrowing new skin at the edges of a wound is a
» more “gross” undertaking, that involves simply laying down new cells in
» sequence and building fresh tissue at the healing edge of a wound site?
» This involves stem cells being freed and converted into tissue cells –
» skin cells.
ECM’s have been shown to regenerate/encourage tissue to grow like their surrounding cells.
» But in order for actual new HAIR FOLLICLES to form there, there must be
» speicific signals for HAIR FOLLICLES to grow, and the ECM does not provide
» those specific signals. It only provides a matrix on which the stem
» cells, destined to mature into skin cells, can take root.
Not strictly true, as acell is mimicing the bodys natural signal to regrow, all necessary signals in theory should be provided by the body. Don’t forget after a wound it is the body’s first reaction to heal and second to scar to ward off infection. If we were imune from infection/disease then we would probably always heal fully.
It doesn’t just provide a matrix for the stem cells to mature into skin cells, your body itself knows where the skin and hair is supposed to be.
» But growing a hair follicle is a lot more complicated than growing fresh
» tissue with an ECM, because the hair follicle itself is much more
» complicated. It has a lot of different types of cells, and hair follicles
» don’t just sprout spontaneously when new skin grows, they must be
» “signalled” to do so, by some very specific chemicals, which the ECM DOES
» NOT PROVIDE…?
Again not stricly true, your skin is one of the largest most complicated organs in the body, made up of many complicated cells, many share similarities to the cells with in hair follicels, it is also supposed to have hair follicles in it.
ECM’S dont’ provide the signals of where and how hair is formed your body in theory should do it on its own. ECM’s dont tell your skin to grow in specific places either, it is just encouraging your bodys natural reaction.
Regenerating skin/organs is like growing them for the first time as an embryo.
If you fully heal skin naturally, there is a good chance that it may form follicles. They can take a while longer after skin is grown to be visable which could be why we have had no reports of hair growth.
Then again there is also a chance that the signal is not strong enough to form follicles or other variables that could cause hair to not grow.
» By the way, at least we know that the various HM procedures, as imperfect
» and unreliable as they may be, are actually inducing hair follicles to grow
» SPECIFICALLY, because they are putting new DP cells, keratinocytes, and
» fibroblasts into the skin, with all the necessary biochemical signals
» needed to specifically induce the formation of new hair follicles, or
» revive old ones, wheras Acell and ECM does nothing of the sort.
That is because they are trying to regrow/create hair follicles in existing skin, where the old follicles have become damaged or susceptable to other affects associated with the genes that cause MPB (inflamation, hormones etc)
What we can gather so far is that injecting DP cells with or with out some other cells asociated with the hair follicle do not work very well at all.
Regenerating skin and its asociated tissue in the what that ecm’s propose should be more like creating that tissue naturally for the first time, as in it should be regenerating all the specific ingredients for follicle formation from scratch. Similarly to what follica have proposed.
There are alos certain Lamins that have been recently discovered to play an important role in the creation/growth of hair and it has discovered the ecm’s can help in creating the correct surronding for them to work.
MY POINT IS that although it is not 100% definate that ecm’s will regrow hair on a human, in theory it is entirely possible BUT you need to realize that most people here are NOT counting on acell to regrow hair BUT to regenerate skin WHICH IT ALSREADY HAS SHOW TO DO and create scarless H.T surgeries.
» Willy, if you are really a respectful poster here and not just a
» gun-slinging cowboy who goes on gut-instincts and “hunches”, then you will
» respect me as a voice of all the curious here, and begin to rationally
» address these specific concerns and questions.
Again, you can’t solely place the blame for the acell hype on willy, it was discussed well before will decided to contact them.
There is nothing wrong with going on hunches or instincts, in the situation that we all share we don’t have a lot to go on, some people believe that they have to end their problem on there own, or by any means necessary.
Why can’t you just accept that some people want to try this?, if it doesn’t work then we will say oh well and forget about it.
Why try so hard to shoot it down? people are not going to like you for it, people just want the experiment to run.
You’d be stupid to put all your hopes and dreams in to this and most people are well awate that it will most probably fail and they are happy with knowing that they at least tried.
I can see that some of the ‘info’ you posted is not stricly true but what you believe or what your instinct tells you. I’m not trying to say that every thing I have written is a solid gold fact but my point is anyone can pull out info, quotes, data, what ever and turn it around to make it looke like how they want, good or bad.
A bit of friendly advice to you is, don’t try so hard to disprove acell, if it is going to fail then it will in its own time, just let people get on with it. If some people want to believe in it let them, they should be man enough to face the dissapointment if it doen’t work out.
It works the other way, you don’t know for sure it will fail, and it might not so why not give it a try.
ECM’s are not new to us, we have researched all the risks and possibilities and know what to expect either way.
We are all grown ups and know what we are getting our selves into.
Don’t blame willy either, all he has done was contact a company directly that some of us were already discussing could be a possible help.
Why can’t you just ignore the posts if you don’t like them? I’m not saying if you disagree don’t post at all, by all means state your point but don’t keep posting long winded, repetative, illinformed attacks.
I don’t agree with all the emotional “how to live your life” threads but I don’t keep going on about them, I just ignore them.
» Thank you for your attention!
»
» Good Bye for now,
»
» gollumisbald4now
