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A Specific Challenge to Willy


#1

Here is a challenge to Willy:

What is your proposed mechanism for how Acell would regrow hair?

Your “theory” (for lack of a better word) seems to imply that the Extra-Cellular Matrix somehow encourages the growth of fresh tissue PLUS everything associated with that tissue, including brand new hair follicles.

OK. I think we can all agree that the evidence indicates that the ECM does indeed promote the regrowth of fresh, new tissue, which helps to restore the initial conditions before a wound. In other words, it somehow discourages the accumulation of scar tissue (fibrous tissue), and encourages the growth of new, healthy tissue.

By the way, everyone should know that Acell is really nothing new – there are lots of companies and products out there in the market, or under development, which are doing, or claim to do, the exact same thing as Acell, in the very same way – with an Extra-Cellular Matrix.

So, how is it growing brand new hair follicles? Where’s the evidence for that? Is there even one tiny little shred of evidence? Something real that we can grasp onto?

If there is even the slightest little tiny shred of evidence that Acell, or any kind of ECM, is able to grow new hair follicles on new skin, I would like to see it!

Do you realise that just because a product can regrow new healthy skin, does not mean that it is also able to grow new hair follicles in that skin?

Do you realise that the hair follicle is a separate entity from the skin, a separate organ, that develops in a completely different way from the skin, and is genetically programmed to grow from the embryonic stage of life?

There are literally hundreds of scientists around the world, maybe thousands, doing experiments with things like ECM, trying to regrow limbs, fingers, organs, etc. on mice, rabbits, monkeys, cats, dogs, and humans.

This kind of experimentation with ECM and other things like it has been going on a long time, at least a decade. Acell is only one of MANY biotech companies that has been working with ECM, trying to foster better wound healing and similar medical benefits.

But not once have we ever heard of any of these companies or scientists, anywhere, claiming that in conjunction with the regrowth of new skin, it is also growing new hair follicles.

And there are A LOT of scientists out there who would love to grow new hair follicles, because they know it would make them a lot of money.

So, why all this focus on Acell? Why now? Why all the excitement about a company that is not unique, that is simply re-hashing experiments already done by other companies and other scientists, and none of them has EVER claimed to grow new hair?

Doesn’t it make sense that regrowing new skin at the edges of a wound is a more “gross” undertaking, that involves simply laying down new cells in sequence and building fresh tissue at the healing edge of a wound site? This involves stem cells being freed and converted into tissue cells – skin cells.

But in order for actual new HAIR FOLLICLES to form there, there must be speicific signals for HAIR FOLLICLES to grow, and the ECM does not provide those specific signals. It only provides a matrix on which the stem cells, destined to mature into skin cells, can take root.

But growing a hair follicle is a lot more complicated than growing fresh tissue with an ECM, because the hair follicle itself is much more complicated. It has a lot of different types of cells, and hair follicles don’t just sprout spontaneously when new skin grows, they must be “signalled” to do so, by some very specific chemicals, which the ECM DOES NOT PROVIDE…?

By the way, at least we know that the various HM procedures, as imperfect and unreliable as they may be, are actually inducing hair follicles to grow SPECIFICALLY, because they are putting new DP cells, keratinocytes, and fibroblasts into the skin, with all the necessary biochemical signals needed to specifically induce the formation of new hair follicles, or revive old ones, wheras Acell and ECM does nothing of the sort.

Willy, if you are really a respectful poster here and not just a gun-slinging cowboy who goes on gut-instincts and “hunches”, then you will respect me as a voice of all the curious here, and begin to rationally address these specific concerns and questions.

Thank you for your attention!

Good Bye for now,

gollumisbald4now


#2

» Here is a challenge to Willy:
»
» What is your proposed mechanism for how Acell would regrow hair?
»
» Your “theory” (for lack of a better word) seems to imply that the
» Extra-Cellular Matrix somehow encourages the growth of fresh tissue PLUS
» everything associated with that tissue, including brand new hair
» follicles.
»
» OK. I think we can all agree that the evidence indicates that the ECM
» does indeed promote the regrowth of fresh, new tissue, which helps to
» restore the initial conditions before a wound. In other words, it somehow
» discourages the accumulation of scar tissue (fibrous tissue), and
» encourages the growth of new, healthy tissue.
»
» By the way, everyone should know that Acell is really nothing new – there
» are lots of companies and products out there in the market, or under
» development, which are doing, or claim to do, the exact same thing as
» Acell, in the very same way – with an Extra-Cellular Matrix.
»
» So, how is it growing brand new hair follicles? Where’s the evidence for
» that? Is there even one tiny little shred of evidence? Something real
» that we can grasp onto?
»
» If there is even the slightest little tiny shred of evidence that Acell,
» or any kind of ECM, is able to grow new hair follicles on new skin, I would
» like to see it!
»
» Do you realise that just because a product can regrow new healthy skin,
» does not mean that it is also able to grow new hair follicles in that
» skin?
»
» Do you realise that the hair follicle is a separate entity from the skin,
» a separate organ, that develops in a completely different way from the
» skin, and is genetically programmed to grow from the embryonic stage of
» life?
»
» There are literally hundreds of scientists around the world, maybe
» thousands, doing experiments with things like ECM, trying to regrow limbs,
» fingers, organs, etc. on mice, rabbits, monkeys, cats, dogs, and humans.
»
» This kind of experimentation with ECM and other things like it has been
» going on a long time, at least a decade. Acell is only one of MANY
» biotech companies that has been working with ECM, trying to foster better
» wound healing and similar medical benefits.
»
» But not once have we ever heard of any of these companies or scientists,
» anywhere, claiming that in conjunction with the regrowth of new skin, it is
» also growing new hair follicles.
»
» And there are A LOT of scientists out there who would love to grow new
» hair follicles, because they know it would make them a lot of money.
»
» So, why all this focus on Acell? Why now? Why all the excitement about
» a company that is not unique, that is simply re-hashing experiments already
» done by other companies and other scientists, and none of them has EVER
» claimed to grow new hair?
»
» Doesn’t it make sense that regrowing new skin at the edges of a wound is a
» more “gross” undertaking, that involves simply laying down new cells in
» sequence and building fresh tissue at the healing edge of a wound site?
» This involves stem cells being freed and converted into tissue cells –
» skin cells.
»
» But in order for actual new HAIR FOLLICLES to form there, there must be
» speicific signals for HAIR FOLLICLES to grow, and the ECM does not provide
» those specific signals. It only provides a matrix on which the stem
» cells, destined to mature into skin cells, can take root.
»
» But growing a hair follicle is a lot more complicated than growing fresh
» tissue with an ECM, because the hair follicle itself is much more
» complicated. It has a lot of different types of cells, and hair follicles
» don’t just sprout spontaneously when new skin grows, they must be
» “signalled” to do so, by some very specific chemicals, which the ECM DOES
» NOT PROVIDE…?
»
» By the way, at least we know that the various HM procedures, as imperfect
» and unreliable as they may be, are actually inducing hair follicles to grow
» SPECIFICALLY, because they are putting new DP cells, keratinocytes, and
» fibroblasts into the skin, with all the necessary biochemical signals
» needed to specifically induce the formation of new hair follicles, or
» revive old ones, wheras Acell and ECM does nothing of the sort.
»
» Willy, if you are really a respectful poster here and not just a
» gun-slinging cowboy who goes on gut-instincts and “hunches”, then you will
» respect me as a voice of all the curious here, and begin to rationally
» address these specific concerns and questions.
»
» Thank you for your attention!
»
» Good Bye for now,
»
» gollumisbald4now

Nice try. I’ve already admitted that I do not have the science background to truly understand the mechanism involved in HM research or ECM tissue regeneration. That being said, that fact that I admit to my lack of knowledge on this issue doesn’t transfer to an automatic credit to your background. You can debate your issues with others who have a better understanding of this subject (if your point here is to impresses the forum members with your intelligence…if that is the case, you really need to get a life).

I have never made any absolute predictions that Acell will regrow hair. To the contrary, I’ve made efforts to caution people from over-optimism. Find one post where I’ve guaranteed success of Acell. You can try (if you want to waste more of your time, but you won’t succeed in this endevor). If my hunches are correct (about you), we’ve been down this road before.

The fact is, many of us have been comming to this site for many years (far longer than 1.5 years) and welcome ANY attempts at hair regeneration. That is the whole purpose of this forum…can you understand that?? People with science backgrounds FAR MORE EXTENSIVE THAN YOURS believe that Acell is at worth trying for this application. If you do not, you’re entitled to your opininion, but it’s irrelevant at this point because several doctors are trying it and at some point, speculation will not matter…we will have confirmed results one way or another (I assume you will say we already do have confirmed negative results because of Jone’s experiment, but I want to see more testing before I am sure one way or another.)

The fact of the matter is, why are you so concerned with Acell? You’ve already made your mind up that it will not work and that my posts are useless. Why don’t you just avoid reading them. You claim to have a thorough understanding of the scientific issues discussed on this forum, yet you do not have the common sense just ignore posts that you disagree with. You’ve made your point known to all on the forum, yet you continue to push it when most do not care. I believe that most here are intelligent to look at the experiments with guarded optimism (as I do) and hope for the best but expect the worst (as we’ve seen so many times before).

As far as wanting to gain attention on this forum, that remark shows your mentality. I want to be a “hero” on a hairloss forum…what a joke! The fact that you would even say that shows your warped way of thinking…obviously, you come here seeking attention (and I believe you post here under a different name also but were forced to adopt a new one since you have lost all credibility with the old one) and need to develop a social life in the “real world”.

The bottom line is this:

  1. I’ve admitted on several occassions not to have a thorough scientific background with reguards to HM or ECM’s…you’re just kicking a dead horse here. If you are blessed with a superior understanding of these matters, why don’t you work in the field with the TRUE SCIENTISTS AND DOCTORS already working on these advancements.

  2. Most of the people here are happy Acell is being tested and await the results with guarded optimism. It’s been made clear on several occasions that positive results with Acell are a big IF AND NOT WHEN. Unlike your opinion of the people who are members of this forum, I believe that most of them are intelligent enough to understand this.

  3. If you feel that any posts about Acell (or any of my posts in general) are irrelevant to the advancements of future treatments for hair loss, JUST IGNORE THEM. It’s really easy to do. By the way, you’ve made the remark that I’ve wasted the time and space on this forum (I didn’t know that there was a limit to the amount of space available on Hairsite…lol) but yet you CONTINUE to focus on these issues. Anyone with any common sense at all would just ignore subjects that aren’t worth adressing (at least repeatedly) if they felt that it wasn’t worth their precious time…it’s obvious that you have WAY TOO MUCH TIME ON YOUR HANDS and come here for reasons that do not involve getting your hair back.

  4. I’m not going to waste my time going back and forth with you on this issue. I do have other things going on in my life and don’t value your opinions enough to continuously debate them on this forum.

  5. I’m glad Acell is being tested. Most of the forum members are glad Acell is being tested. It may or may not work. We all understand and accept that. The doctors already have it and are trying it so speculation (on either side) is irrelevant at this point…we will know something in the relatively near future. We are sitting back and awaiting results with guarded optimism and at the very least, it gives us something of interest to follow on this forum (although I’m sure you disagree…and as I’ve said before…just disreguard these posts).

I’ve wasted enough time replying to your post and will not continue to go back and forth on this…you’re entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine (and everyone on hairsite can form their own on these issues).

Take Care,
Bill


#3

» Here is a challenge to Willy:
»

Well, I’m not Willy, but I’ll chip in.

» What is your proposed mechanism for how Acell would regrow hair?
»
» Your “theory”

It is not the theory only of Willy. It is a theory of a bunch of doctors experimenting with ACELL. Not that it really matters.

» Extra-Cellular Matrix somehow encourages the growth of fresh tissue PLUS
» everything associated with that tissue, including brand new hair
» follicles.

Even though they do not specifically list follicles, ACELL claim the following in their FAQ:

Q How does the ACell Vet™ material promote healing?
A. The ACell Vet™ bioscaffold promotes healing by encouraging new blood vessel formation and causing constructive remodeling of damaged tissues. When applied at the site of injury or surgery, host cells attach to it, grow into it, degrade it, and replace it with tissues that are site appropriate.

This certainly doesn’t mean ACELL definitely grows hairs, but it is an indication. Then again, we shouldn’t really trust the people who are selling it, since they are biased. That’s why independent studies are necessary, such as Dr Jones’.

» So, how is it growing brand new hair follicles? Where’s the evidence for
» that? Is there even one tiny little shred of evidence? Something real
» that we can grasp onto?

Sure, it is available on their web site, for instance. Here is one animal case study where they specifically mention hair regrowth (look at the photo 5): http://www.acell.com/lucille.php

Follow-up June 28th shows complete hair re-growth in wound area.

There are several other case studies here which indicate regrowth of hair (fur): http://www.acell.com/vetcasestudies.php

» If there is even the slightest little tiny shred of evidence that Acell,
» or any kind of ECM, is able to grow new hair follicles on new skin, I would
» like to see it!

See above. Granted these are animal studies, successful animal studies are normally a good indicator to determine if it is worthwhile to do human studies, as I’m sure you agree. Naturally, it does not mean the human trials will be successful, just that might be reasonable to conduct the trials. That’s where we are now.

» So, why all this focus on Acell? Why now? Why all the excitement about
» a company that is not unique, that is simply re-hashing experiments already
» done by other companies and other scientists, and none of them has EVER
» claimed to grow new hair?

Because doctors are testing it now, specifically to see if it might be useful in a treatment/procedure for hairloss. And ACELL have explicitly claimed to grow hair - albeit in animals. Also, skin normally contains follicles, usually producing vellous type hair. So, when ACELL claims to have produced “normal” skin, it is not that much of a stretch to think it could include follicles.

» But in order for actual new HAIR FOLLICLES to form there, there must be
» speicific signals for HAIR FOLLICLES to grow, and the ECM does not provide
» those specific signals. It only provides a matrix on which the stem
» cells, destined to mature into skin cells, can take root.

And how do you know that the stem cells do not differentiate into follicles if needed? In animals, the stem cells seem to be able to do so (see above). The body’s wound response could possibly be the initiator of such signals, be it Noggin, DKK1, WNT, EGF or whatever. Please note that ACELL requires injury to work. It is not the ECM that does the healing, it is the body. “The ACell Vet™ product does not work when it does not see normal body stresses.”


#4

» Here is a challenge to Willy:
»
» What is your proposed mechanism for how Acell would regrow hair?

You do realise that MOST of the posters here hope it will elliminate scars from strip surgeries don’t you? using wound healing capabilities.
Growing hair would be an unexpected bonus.

» Your “theory” (for lack of a better word) seems to imply that the
» Extra-Cellular Matrix somehow encourages the growth of fresh tissue PLUS
» everything associated with that tissue, including brand new hair
» follicles.

Well infact it does, ecm’s have show to regrow tissue to there local surroundings.

» OK. I think we can all agree that the evidence indicates that the ECM
» does indeed promote the regrowth of fresh, new tissue, which helps to
» restore the initial conditions before a wound. In other words, it somehow
» discourages the accumulation of scar tissue (fibrous tissue), and
» encourages the growth of new, healthy tissue.

This is true, When you are wounded it is your bodys first reaction to heal the wound (by regenerating healthy tissue) but after a certain amount of time your body will send the signal to scar over, the reason for this is to close the wound as soon as possible to prevent infection/disease. What acell and other ECM’s do is postpone or delay the accumulation of fibrous tissue enough for the wound to heal fully or fully enough that a scar is not noticable to the eye.

» By the way, everyone should know that Acell is really nothing new – there
» are lots of companies and products out there in the market, or under
» development, which are doing, or claim to do, the exact same thing as
» Acell, in the very same way – with an Extra-Cellular Matrix.

We all know that acell is not new, if you bothered to look back through the forum you would realize that we have discused this to death before.
We know about other ecm’s we know about older genreation ecm’s, we know how they differ from acell and we know that the release of acell was delayed by almost a decade due to OTHER ecm’s.
We know that it regrew a finger tip, we know about some companies investingating ecm’s for organ growth, we also know about the U.S military testing it.
We are not stupid we are able to research.
If you bothered to read you would realize that willy wasn’t even the first person to bring acell to this board. It had been discussed numerouse times before willy picked it up, he was just the first person to pick it up and contact the company for info.

» So, how is it growing brand new hair follicles? Where’s the evidence for
» that? Is there even one tiny little shred of evidence? Something real
» that we can grasp onto?

We all know that the animal cases regrew most if not all the fur, but some of the cases had big, wide, deep wounds with minimal flesh growing and no hair.
We all know that animals can regrow fur easier than we can regrow hair but some of these had their wounds for over a year which would never have grown back. They were completely heald.
Before you say, it is possible for a furry animal’s wound to heal with fur never growing back.
There you go, evidence of acell regrowing hair that you can grasp onto (what, if your going to get perdantic so am I, you didn’t say human evidence :-P).
I assume you know that animal studies can be a good inication of what to expect on a human study, its often where they start.
If you bothered to read what we write, we have told you before that acell growing hair on a human would be a nice supprize, what most hope for is to put the wound healing capabilities to use and aid in creating scarless strip ht’s.

» If there is even the slightest little tiny shred of evidence that Acell,
» or any kind of ECM, is able to grow new hair follicles on new skin, I would
» like to see it!

See above.
I’d like to point out that it regenerates tissue localy, if you have a fresh wound the theory is that it will regenerate tissue identicall to that of its surroundings, i.e complete healing and no scarring.
ECM’s have has also aided in the regeneration/growth of some very complicated organs/organ components in humans.

» Do you realise that just because a product can regrow new healthy skin,
» does not mean that it is also able to grow new hair follicles in that
» skin?

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD WE HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS FROM THE START, IF THERE IS A CHANCE IT IS WORTH INVESTIGATING. You don’t know if it won’t regrow hair as much as we know it will.

» Do you realise that the hair follicle is a separate entity from the skin,
» a separate organ, that develops in a completely different way from the
» skin, and is genetically programmed to grow from the embryonic stage of
» life?

Yes, so is skin, the largest and one of the most complicated organ in the human body which is also programed to grow at an embryonic stage and can be triggered to regrow after.

» There are literally hundreds of scientists around the world, maybe
» thousands, doing experiments with things like ECM, trying to regrow limbs,
» fingers, organs, etc. on mice, rabbits, monkeys, cats, dogs, and humans.

Yes we have posted this up time and time before, ecm’s have succesfully aided in regenerating a plethora of complicated HUMAN internal organs from bladders, to wind pipes, to lungs and parts af a heart, many more aswell.

» This kind of experimentation with ECM and other things like it has been
» going on a long time, at least a decade. Acell is only one of MANY
» biotech companies that has been working with ECM, trying to foster better
» wound healing and similar medical benefits.

WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING THIS FOR A REALLY LONG TIME, GET WITH THE PROGRAM.

» But not once have we ever heard of any of these companies or scientists,
» anywhere, claiming that in conjunction with the regrowth of new skin, it is
» also growing new hair follicles.

Maybe, because untill now nobody has been looking at it for its capabilities in regenerating hair follicles. I’m sure it has been used in a lot of other applications that we haven’t heard of, just because you don’t know about it doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened.

» And there are A LOT of scientists out there who would love to grow new
» hair follicles, because they know it would make them a lot of money.

Agreed, but Acell as a company are not interested in testing their product or marketing for MPB because it would cost use a lot of resources and money that they don’t have, they are much more interested in licensing it to other companies so they can inverstigate it themselves, this would also generate acell a sh*t load of revenue.
They seem to be more focused on the wound healing/ organ repair.
Don’t forge the only people really interested in curing MPB is those who have MPB.

» So, why all this focus on Acell? Why now? Why all the excitement about
» a company that is not unique, that is simply re-hashing experiments already
» done by other companies and other scientists, and none of them has EVER
» claimed to grow new hair?

Why not? if there is a chance that is can help, be it from regenerating hair or scarless H.T’s then it is worth a try, If it doesn’t work then oh well, at least we tried.

I think you should also look up the differenced between most other ECM’s on the market. Acell is sort of regarded as a second generation ecm where as most, if not all otheres are still first generation. The differences are among otheres where the cells were harvested from.

» Doesn’t it make sense that regrowing new skin at the edges of a wound is a
» more “gross” undertaking, that involves simply laying down new cells in
» sequence and building fresh tissue at the healing edge of a wound site?
» This involves stem cells being freed and converted into tissue cells –
» skin cells.

ECM’s have been shown to regenerate/encourage tissue to grow like their surrounding cells.

» But in order for actual new HAIR FOLLICLES to form there, there must be
» speicific signals for HAIR FOLLICLES to grow, and the ECM does not provide
» those specific signals. It only provides a matrix on which the stem
» cells, destined to mature into skin cells, can take root.

Not strictly true, as acell is mimicing the bodys natural signal to regrow, all necessary signals in theory should be provided by the body. Don’t forget after a wound it is the body’s first reaction to heal and second to scar to ward off infection. If we were imune from infection/disease then we would probably always heal fully.
It doesn’t just provide a matrix for the stem cells to mature into skin cells, your body itself knows where the skin and hair is supposed to be.

» But growing a hair follicle is a lot more complicated than growing fresh
» tissue with an ECM, because the hair follicle itself is much more
» complicated. It has a lot of different types of cells, and hair follicles
» don’t just sprout spontaneously when new skin grows, they must be
» “signalled” to do so, by some very specific chemicals, which the ECM DOES
» NOT PROVIDE…?

Again not stricly true, your skin is one of the largest most complicated organs in the body, made up of many complicated cells, many share similarities to the cells with in hair follicels, it is also supposed to have hair follicles in it.

ECM’S dont’ provide the signals of where and how hair is formed your body in theory should do it on its own. ECM’s dont tell your skin to grow in specific places either, it is just encouraging your bodys natural reaction.

Regenerating skin/organs is like growing them for the first time as an embryo.
If you fully heal skin naturally, there is a good chance that it may form follicles. They can take a while longer after skin is grown to be visable which could be why we have had no reports of hair growth.
Then again there is also a chance that the signal is not strong enough to form follicles or other variables that could cause hair to not grow.

» By the way, at least we know that the various HM procedures, as imperfect
» and unreliable as they may be, are actually inducing hair follicles to grow
» SPECIFICALLY, because they are putting new DP cells, keratinocytes, and
» fibroblasts into the skin, with all the necessary biochemical signals
» needed to specifically induce the formation of new hair follicles, or
» revive old ones, wheras Acell and ECM does nothing of the sort.

That is because they are trying to regrow/create hair follicles in existing skin, where the old follicles have become damaged or susceptable to other affects associated with the genes that cause MPB (inflamation, hormones etc)
What we can gather so far is that injecting DP cells with or with out some other cells asociated with the hair follicle do not work very well at all.

Regenerating skin and its asociated tissue in the what that ecm’s propose should be more like creating that tissue naturally for the first time, as in it should be regenerating all the specific ingredients for follicle formation from scratch. Similarly to what follica have proposed.
There are alos certain Lamins that have been recently discovered to play an important role in the creation/growth of hair and it has discovered the ecm’s can help in creating the correct surronding for them to work.

MY POINT IS that although it is not 100% definate that ecm’s will regrow hair on a human, in theory it is entirely possible BUT you need to realize that most people here are NOT counting on acell to regrow hair BUT to regenerate skin WHICH IT ALSREADY HAS SHOW TO DO and create scarless H.T surgeries.

» Willy, if you are really a respectful poster here and not just a
» gun-slinging cowboy who goes on gut-instincts and “hunches”, then you will
» respect me as a voice of all the curious here, and begin to rationally
» address these specific concerns and questions.

Again, you can’t solely place the blame for the acell hype on willy, it was discussed well before will decided to contact them.
There is nothing wrong with going on hunches or instincts, in the situation that we all share we don’t have a lot to go on, some people believe that they have to end their problem on there own, or by any means necessary.
Why can’t you just accept that some people want to try this?, if it doesn’t work then we will say oh well and forget about it.
Why try so hard to shoot it down? people are not going to like you for it, people just want the experiment to run.
You’d be stupid to put all your hopes and dreams in to this and most people are well awate that it will most probably fail and they are happy with knowing that they at least tried.

I can see that some of the ‘info’ you posted is not stricly true but what you believe or what your instinct tells you. I’m not trying to say that every thing I have written is a solid gold fact but my point is anyone can pull out info, quotes, data, what ever and turn it around to make it looke like how they want, good or bad.

A bit of friendly advice to you is, don’t try so hard to disprove acell, if it is going to fail then it will in its own time, just let people get on with it. If some people want to believe in it let them, they should be man enough to face the dissapointment if it doen’t work out.
It works the other way, you don’t know for sure it will fail, and it might not so why not give it a try.
ECM’s are not new to us, we have researched all the risks and possibilities and know what to expect either way.
We are all grown ups and know what we are getting our selves into.
Don’t blame willy either, all he has done was contact a company directly that some of us were already discussing could be a possible help.

Why can’t you just ignore the posts if you don’t like them? I’m not saying if you disagree don’t post at all, by all means state your point but don’t keep posting long winded, repetative, illinformed attacks.
I don’t agree with all the emotional “how to live your life” threads but I don’t keep going on about them, I just ignore them.

» Thank you for your attention!
»
» Good Bye for now,
»
» gollumisbald4now


#5

» Here is a challenge to Willy:
»
» What is your proposed mechanism for how Acell would regrow hair?
»
» Your “theory” (for lack of a better word) seems to imply that the
» Extra-Cellular Matrix somehow encourages the growth of fresh tissue PLUS
» everything associated with that tissue, including brand new hair
» follicles.
»
» OK. I think we can all agree that the evidence indicates that the ECM
» does indeed promote the regrowth of fresh, new tissue, which helps to
» restore the initial conditions before a wound. In other words, it somehow
» discourages the accumulation of scar tissue (fibrous tissue), and
» encourages the growth of new, healthy tissue.
»
» By the way, everyone should know that Acell is really nothing new – there
» are lots of companies and products out there in the market, or under
» development, which are doing, or claim to do, the exact same thing as
» Acell, in the very same way – with an Extra-Cellular Matrix.
»
» So, how is it growing brand new hair follicles? Where’s the evidence for
» that? Is there even one tiny little shred of evidence? Something real
» that we can grasp onto?
»
» If there is even the slightest little tiny shred of evidence that Acell,
» or any kind of ECM, is able to grow new hair follicles on new skin, I would
» like to see it!
»
» Do you realise that just because a product can regrow new healthy skin,
» does not mean that it is also able to grow new hair follicles in that
» skin?
»
» Do you realise that the hair follicle is a separate entity from the skin,
» a separate organ, that develops in a completely different way from the
» skin, and is genetically programmed to grow from the embryonic stage of
» life?
»
» There are literally hundreds of scientists around the world, maybe
» thousands, doing experiments with things like ECM, trying to regrow limbs,
» fingers, organs, etc. on mice, rabbits, monkeys, cats, dogs, and humans.
»
» This kind of experimentation with ECM and other things like it has been
» going on a long time, at least a decade. Acell is only one of MANY
» biotech companies that has been working with ECM, trying to foster better
» wound healing and similar medical benefits.
»
» But not once have we ever heard of any of these companies or scientists,
» anywhere, claiming that in conjunction with the regrowth of new skin, it is
» also growing new hair follicles.
»
» And there are A LOT of scientists out there who would love to grow new
» hair follicles, because they know it would make them a lot of money.
»
» So, why all this focus on Acell? Why now? Why all the excitement about
» a company that is not unique, that is simply re-hashing experiments already
» done by other companies and other scientists, and none of them has EVER
» claimed to grow new hair?
»
» Doesn’t it make sense that regrowing new skin at the edges of a wound is a
» more “gross” undertaking, that involves simply laying down new cells in
» sequence and building fresh tissue at the healing edge of a wound site?
» This involves stem cells being freed and converted into tissue cells –
» skin cells.
»
» But in order for actual new HAIR FOLLICLES to form there, there must be
» speicific signals for HAIR FOLLICLES to grow, and the ECM does not provide
» those specific signals. It only provides a matrix on which the stem
» cells, destined to mature into skin cells, can take root.
»
» But growing a hair follicle is a lot more complicated than growing fresh
» tissue with an ECM, because the hair follicle itself is much more
» complicated. It has a lot of different types of cells, and hair follicles
» don’t just sprout spontaneously when new skin grows, they must be
» “signalled” to do so, by some very specific chemicals, which the ECM DOES
» NOT PROVIDE…?
»
» By the way, at least we know that the various HM procedures, as imperfect
» and unreliable as they may be, are actually inducing hair follicles to grow
» SPECIFICALLY, because they are putting new DP cells, keratinocytes, and
» fibroblasts into the skin, with all the necessary biochemical signals
» needed to specifically induce the formation of new hair follicles, or
» revive old ones, wheras Acell and ECM does nothing of the sort.
»
» Willy, if you are really a respectful poster here and not just a
» gun-slinging cowboy who goes on gut-instincts and “hunches”, then you will
» respect me as a voice of all the curious here, and begin to rationally
» address these specific concerns and questions.
»
» Thank you for your attention!
»
» Good Bye for now,
»
» gollumisbald4now

A note for you,the difference between ECM products is crosslinking (denaturing). Other products have been denatured by chemical additives that denature.

Here is some research for you with regards to an earlier ECM product.

http://www.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/0002.Badylak.SIS.html


#6

For your convenience, some more information:

Naturally derived, non-crosslinked ECMs, like UBM, are unique among scaffold technologies which fundamentally change healing by triggering abundant new blood vessel formation and recruiting numerous cell types to the wound site. These cells, including progenitor cells, have the potential to differentiate into numerous types of site specific tissues.

and

UBM with the Treatment of Full-Thickness Skin Wounds
UBM was evaluated for repair of a 5 x 5 cm full-thickness lateral thoracic wall defect in a canine model (n = 6) including 5-cm segments of the 6th and 7th rib. The resected portion of the 7th rib was replaced as an interpositional graft along with the UBM scaffold. As a control, a Gore-Tex patch was used to repair the same defect (n = 2). The control animals healed by encapsulation of the Gore-Tex patch by dense collagenous tissue. The remodeled UBM grafts showed the presence of site-specific tissue, including organized fibrous connective tissue, muscle tissue, adipose tissue, and bone. Upon fluoroscopic examination, it was shown that both bony defects were replaced with new calcified bone. In the 6th rib space, new bone bridged the entire span. In the 7th rib space, there was evidence of bone formation between the interpositional graft and the existing bone, as well as de novo formation of organized bone in the shape of the missing rib segment parallel to the interpositional graft. This study concluded that UBM promotes site-specific constructive remodeling in a large thoracic wall defect. [1]

Studies evaluating the utility of UBM for the treatment of full-thickness and partial-thickness wounds have been conducted to address such issues as the source of cells that reconstitute the scaffold, the effect of cell-seeded grafts versus unseeded grafts, and the effect of multiple treatments versus single treatments upon wound outcome. The results of these studies will be submitted upon completion.


[1] Gilbert TW, Nieponice A, Spievak AR, Repair of the Thoracic Wall With an Extracellular Matrix Scaffold in a Canine Model. J Surg Res. 2007 Oct 18.

(From the ACELL website. My boldface.)


#7

I appreciate the information you have provided to us in here Willy. Keep it coming.:slight_smile:


#8

You are a psycho, all that Willy has been doing is to help everyone get more information, he 's never made any claims, your post serves no purpose at all, just back off and leave him alone you punk!


#9

» Here is a challenge to Willy:
»
» What is your proposed mechanism for how Acell would regrow hair?
»
» Your “theory” (for lack of a better word) seems to imply that the
» Extra-Cellular Matrix somehow encourages the growth of fresh tissue PLUS
» everything associated with that tissue, including brand new hair
» follicles.
»
» OK. I think we can all agree that the evidence indicates that the ECM
» does indeed promote the regrowth of fresh, new tissue, which helps to
» restore the initial conditions before a wound. In other words, it somehow
» discourages the accumulation of scar tissue (fibrous tissue), and
» encourages the growth of new, healthy tissue.
»
» By the way, everyone should know that Acell is really nothing new – there
» are lots of companies and products out there in the market, or under
» development, which are doing, or claim to do, the exact same thing as
» Acell, in the very same way – with an Extra-Cellular Matrix.
»
» So, how is it growing brand new hair follicles? Where’s the evidence for
» that? Is there even one tiny little shred of evidence? Something real
» that we can grasp onto?
»
» If there is even the slightest little tiny shred of evidence that Acell,
» or any kind of ECM, is able to grow new hair follicles on new skin, I would
» like to see it!
»
» Do you realise that just because a product can regrow new healthy skin,
» does not mean that it is also able to grow new hair follicles in that
» skin?
»
» Do you realise that the hair follicle is a separate entity from the skin,
» a separate organ, that develops in a completely different way from the
» skin, and is genetically programmed to grow from the embryonic stage of
» life?
»
» There are literally hundreds of scientists around the world, maybe
» thousands, doing experiments with things like ECM, trying to regrow limbs,
» fingers, organs, etc. on mice, rabbits, monkeys, cats, dogs, and humans.
»
» This kind of experimentation with ECM and other things like it has been
» going on a long time, at least a decade. Acell is only one of MANY
» biotech companies that has been working with ECM, trying to foster better
» wound healing and similar medical benefits.
»
» But not once have we ever heard of any of these companies or scientists,
» anywhere, claiming that in conjunction with the regrowth of new skin, it is
» also growing new hair follicles.
»
» And there are A LOT of scientists out there who would love to grow new
» hair follicles, because they know it would make them a lot of money.
»
» So, why all this focus on Acell? Why now? Why all the excitement about
» a company that is not unique, that is simply re-hashing experiments already
» done by other companies and other scientists, and none of them has EVER
» claimed to grow new hair?
»
» Doesn’t it make sense that regrowing new skin at the edges of a wound is a
» more “gross” undertaking, that involves simply laying down new cells in
» sequence and building fresh tissue at the healing edge of a wound site?
» This involves stem cells being freed and converted into tissue cells –
» skin cells.
»
» But in order for actual new HAIR FOLLICLES to form there, there must be
» speicific signals for HAIR FOLLICLES to grow, and the ECM does not provide
» those specific signals. It only provides a matrix on which the stem
» cells, destined to mature into skin cells, can take root.
»
» But growing a hair follicle is a lot more complicated than growing fresh
» tissue with an ECM, because the hair follicle itself is much more
» complicated. It has a lot of different types of cells, and hair follicles
» don’t just sprout spontaneously when new skin grows, they must be
» “signalled” to do so, by some very specific chemicals, which the ECM DOES
» NOT PROVIDE…?
»
» By the way, at least we know that the various HM procedures, as imperfect
» and unreliable as they may be, are actually inducing hair follicles to grow
» SPECIFICALLY, because they are putting new DP cells, keratinocytes, and
» fibroblasts into the skin, with all the necessary biochemical signals
» needed to specifically induce the formation of new hair follicles, or
» revive old ones, wheras Acell and ECM does nothing of the sort.
»
» Willy, if you are really a respectful poster here and not just a
» gun-slinging cowboy who goes on gut-instincts and “hunches”, then you will
» respect me as a voice of all the curious here, and begin to rationally
» address these specific concerns and questions.
»
» Thank you for your attention!
»
» Good Bye for now,
»
» gollumisbald4now

sounds like a good post. but why this name “gollumisbald4now” ? anyway, if this is scientifically backed, then you may be right. i hope you didnt just make up, what you posted. but it sounds logically to me. so i believe you have some backround and know what you are speaking of. i just dont understand why you must write it in this way?

maybe you re completley right and this acell try is completley bs. i dont think Dr. Jones and the other HT-docs have that much knowledge about ECM-technology. they are HT docs. and docs. but no researchers. maybe you are studying biology or something like this? well , dunno.

if you wouldnt have posted this under this nick and in this way, then maybe you could have brought a bit more clearance on this toppic for the forum.


#10

You made 9 posts thus far… all confronting Willy regarding Acell.

I bet you think you’re being clever, or that we’ve fallen for your bluff, but we know you’re just an alias of a certain fool whose obsessed with Willy.