4,578 graft Fue Megasession with Dr. Armani

» Did I say the transplant was bad work? Please re read what I said
»
» I said they fudged the before pics by making the hair wet/greasy to make
» the before hair look worse
»
» learn to read

“Fudged” is inaccurate. They did not alter the photos. And what, pray tell, do you think would have happened if they had wet his hair in the second picture?

I did not say they photoshopped the pics, all along I have said the before pics are taken with WET OR GREASY HAIR

what part of that do you not comprehend

the appearance of the patient was altered in order to make it appear as if he has less hair , in the before pics

there is no way to describe this other than, an attempt to deceive the public into thinking that this guys results were much more dramatic than in fact was actually the case

as to your question of what do i think the after pics would look like if they greased them, that is the opposite of the relevant question

the relevant question is, what would the before pics look like if the hair was natural and dry and combed, as it should have been, instead of greasing or wetting it to appear extremely thin

Actually, what you desire is consistency. So an after-photo with wet hair would be sufficient. And you may find that wetting this transplanted hair gives this person better coverage: His bangs will probably come down, and cover the majority of his forehead.

» Actually, what you desire is consistency. So an after-photo with wet hair
» would be sufficient. And you may find that wetting this transplanted hair
» gives this person better coverage: His bangs will probably come down, and
» cover the majority of his forehead.

typically what I see is this

before pic either shaved very short
or
long natural hair wetted down or greased up , to make it appear thinner

after pic is

typically long, shown from the front head forward not leaning down
in low light so as not to show the real results

you do not see consistent apples to apples comparisons

when this is brought up to the clinics or their representatives, they blame the patient and say its inconvenient for them, to return for pics or to have to submit a pic with their hair a certain length, etc etc etc

I agree with the fact this may be the case however

I have yet to hear an explanation
or defense to. or even have the subject ADDRESSED by the clinics as to why they post wet before pics

Hanging I have explained this to you before publicly. The magority of the before photos we post are dry, before and after.

Occasionally if the patient has longer hair, Dr. Armani will wet the hair before he inspects the patient in their pre op meeting. This is when Dr. Armani is determing the balding pattern and mapping the scalp for minaturization.

Most times the before photos are taken before the pre op meeting takes place, before the patient’s hair may be dampened during inspection, but sometimes photos are taken after the pre op meeting, this is why you occasionlay see dampened hair in a before photo.

As mentioned before, we cannot demand our patient’s wear their hair a certain length before they have a procedure and we cannot insist on them keeping their hair a particular length after their procedure. To demand this is ludicrous. Patient’s have the right and have paid enough money for a procedure to wear their hair as they wish. Please respect this.

Most photos, more then 90% of what we post are with dry before and after photos. I think the results speak for themselves:









Did I answer your questions Hanging?

» Did I answer your questions Hanging?

kind of

Armani does it again. Superb results, if not one of the best.

This doesn’t make much sense to me.

A professionally run clinic with a standard protocol would take all before pictures the same way.

What is the reason for taking some before pictures wet, and some dry? Someone forgets 10% of the time what their job is?

» Hanging I have explained this to you before publicly. The magority of the
» before photos we post are dry, before and after.
»
» Occasionally if the patient has longer hair, Dr. Armani will wet
» the hair before he inspects the patient in their pre op meeting. This is
» when Dr. Armani is determing the balding pattern and mapping the scalp for
» minaturization.
»
» Most times the before photos are taken before the pre op meeting takes
» place, before the patient’s hair may be dampened during inspection, but
» sometimes photos are taken after the pre op meeting, this is why you
» occasionlay see dampened hair in a before photo.
»
» As mentioned before, we cannot demand our patient’s wear their hair a
» certain length before they have a procedure and we cannot insist on them
» keeping their hair a particular length after their procedure. To demand
» this is ludicrous. Patient’s have the right and have paid enough money for
» a procedure to wear their hair as they wish. Please respect this.
»
» Most photos, more then 90% of what we post are with dry before and after
» photos. I think the results speak for themselves:
»

» This doesn’t make much sense to me.
»
» A professionally run clinic with a standard protocol would take all before
» pictures the same way.
»
» What is the reason for taking some before pictures wet, and some dry?
» Someone forgets 10% of the time what their job is?
»
»

If a patient is running late, depending on staff and Dr. Armani’s schedule many things may dictate when photos are taken. This is not an assembly line, we are dealing with real people here and surgery.

In a morning where we are prepping a patient for surgery, when the photos are being taken is not our main concern. The patient meeting with Dr. Armani to go over final strategy for the procedure, answering all of the patients final questions, prepping the patient for surgery is all put before pictures. I am sorry if you do not agree with this.

Again, look at all of the results posted on the forum and on our website, maybe 5-7% of the photos have a wet or dampened look in the before photos.

» If a patient is running late, depending on staff and Dr. Armani’s schedule
» many things may dictate when photos are taken. This is not an assembly
» line, we are dealing with real people here and surgery.
»
» In a morning where we are prepping a patient for surgery, when the photos
» are being taken is not our main concern. The patient meeting with Dr.
» Armani to go over final strategy for the procedure, answering all of the
» patients final questions, prepping the patient for surgery is all put
» before pictures. I am sorry if you do not agree with this.
»
» Again, look at all of the results posted on the forum and on our website,
» maybe 5-7% of the photos have a wet or dampened look in the before photos.

Yes, surgery is not an assembly line… while you’re doing it. But it sure as heck is regimented strictly into steps before and after.

I don’t see how the patient being late makes sense, at all, for your explanation. If the patient is late, he is late. You will still have to take pictures. If you take them before he sees Dr. Armani, or after he sees Dr. Armani, the patient is still late, no? So why not always take them before he sees Dr. Armani? Taking the pictures after he sees Dr. Armani and his hair is wet doesn’t make time slow down…

In addition, I don’t understand what exactly it is that you do differently from other respected clinics when “prepping” the patient for surgery, that makes you unable to do what they seem able to do: post dry/dry or wet/wet before and after photos for an apples to apples comparison. I just don’t get it. It makes it look like your clinic is not very well organized.

I agree, asking questions is extremely important, but apples to apples comparison photos are extremely important as well, for the patient to assess progress, and for potential patients to judge a doctor. If these photos weren’t so important, you wouldn’t be posting them.
So, I don’t agree with you, but you don’t need to be sorry though. I’m just trying to figure this all out.

Lastly, where do you get the 5-7% figure of patients with wet before pictures? This is really weird. Did you just make this up, or did you really calculate it? If you calculated it, why not just say the actual number? I truly hope, since you are a hair transplant clinic’s sales person/spokesperson/patient rep/what have you, that you are not cavalierly throwing around clinical statistics like that, without some sort of evidence to support your claim, other than you said so. Research Research Research…

JRivera3, I am not going to get in to a debate with you over this, you just made your user account here on the forums yesterday and clearly have an agenda.

I have answered hangining’s questions in detail.

» JRivera3, I am not going to get in to a debate with you over this, you just
» made your user account here on the forums yesterday and clearly have an
» agenda.
»
» I have answered hangining’s questions in detail.

Sorry, you’re not going to answer my questions… because I just joined? Makes no logical sense to me, but ok. I can’t make you answer my questions if that’s your policy.

You are right, I do have an “agenda”, as you put it. 100%. No denial.

My agenda is, I’m a consumer. I want facts. Clinics ask us to put down a rather large chunk of change for a hair surgery. Before I do this, I want to make an informed choice. I can’t do that without facts.

A common way to obscure facts, in general, for any business, is to make misleading ads about their product. For hair transplant clinics, the most common way to make misleading ads about their product is to show misleading pictures of their product. Hair transplant clinics do this by showing before/after transplant photos with different lighting, or the before picture is wet and the after picture is dry. Sometimes hair transplant clinics can’t control this, because the pictures are taken by patients. But that’s not the case here. We’re talking about wet before pictures taken in your office.

This subject of wet before/dry after pics being misleading has been mentioned so many times on other forums I’ve been on… it’s not even a debate whether this is misleading. So I hope you are agree that wet before pics/dry after pics are misleading. I at least hope we can agree on that?

I have a strong pet peeve against a hair transplant clinic posting wet before and dry after surgical pics.

I just registered, went to the hair transplant forum here, and there was one thread, and only one thread, smack dab on the front page, about a clinic using wet before/dry after surgery pics. So that’s the first thing that grabbed my attention.

If you can point out other threads where clinics are doing this, I’ll question them too. I don’t care which clinic does this, I will question them all.

So, there you go. That’s my agenda.

What’s yours?

You sell hair transplants.

I am not asking for people’s money, you are.

You question the sincerity of my “agenda”, well, expect the same.

» » JRivera3, I am not going to get in to a debate with you over this, you
» just
» » made your user account here on the forums yesterday and clearly have an
» » agenda.
» »
» » I have answered hangining’s questions in detail.
»
» Sorry, you’re not going to answer my questions… because I just joined?
» Makes no logical sense to me, but ok. I can’t make you answer my questions
» if that’s your policy.
»
» You are right, I do have an “agenda”, as you put it. 100%. No denial.
»
» My agenda is, I’m a consumer. I want facts. Clinics ask us to put down a
» rather large chunk of change for a hair surgery. Before I do this, I want
» to make an informed choice. I can’t do that without facts.
»
» A common way to obscure facts, in general, for any business, is to make
» misleading ads about their product. For hair transplant clinics, the most
» common way to make misleading ads about their product is to show misleading
» pictures of their product. Hair transplant clinics do this by showing
» before/after transplant photos with different lighting, or the before
» picture is wet and the after picture is dry. Sometimes hair transplant
» clinics can’t control this, because the pictures are taken by patients.
» But that’s not the case here. We’re talking about wet before pictures
» taken in your office.
»
» This subject of wet before/dry after pics being misleading has been
» mentioned so many times on other forums I’ve been on… it’s not even a
» debate whether this is misleading. So I hope you are agree that wet before
» pics/dry after pics are misleading. I at least hope we can agree on that?
»
»
» I have a strong pet peeve against a hair transplant clinic posting wet
» before and dry after surgical pics.
»
» I just registered, went to the hair transplant forum here, and there was
» one thread, and only one thread, smack dab on the front page, about a
» clinic using wet before/dry after surgery pics. So that’s the first thing
» that grabbed my attention.
»
» If you can point out other threads where clinics are doing this, I’ll
» question them too. I don’t care which clinic does this, I will question
» them all.
»
» So, there you go. That’s my agenda.
»
» What’s yours?
»
» You sell hair transplants.
»
» I am not asking for people’s money, you are.
»
» You question the sincerity of my “agenda”, well, expect the same.

u seem like u have a hard on for pats. we all get annoyed with pics and vids time after time but we make our point and move on. but its not about the pics is it? u sound more like u have a personal bone to pick here

Jrivera3,
As the saying goes “for the believer no proof is necessary, for the non believer no proof will suffice”. When it comes to HT, you shouldn’t be in either extreme. You shouldn’t be a naive believer who gets $cammed, or a non believer who questions everything, because it’ll get you no where. In today’s internet, inundated with pictures and videos, it is hard to believe or doubt anything. To make it worse, cosmetic procedures are secretive, if people are secure enough about the appearance they wouldn’t go under the knife in the first place. Most people who undergo a HT wants to keep it a secret, that’s why most pictures we see in this and all other forums doesn’t show the full face. Therefore to expect HT patients to pose as the forum posters desire (length or looks), is just a wishful thinking.
We can talk all day about protocols for pictures, documentation etc., but when you’re dealing with customers and patients in real life it’s a totally different ball game. You’re dealing with human beings, they come in all sizes, shapes and colors. Some times they are adamant and push for a last minute appointment, the clinic could be under-staffed, a supervisor for the photo documentation might be absent, if things can go wrong it’ll. Just go to a professionally run dental clinic and see if everything runs smoothly everyday!
Coming to this particular case, the before and after pictures are not shot in exact conditions and it’s not ideal, but you can’t deny the quality of the result here. Of course the patient paid for it, but the result is there. If you can’t see it, don’t waste your time, a HT is not for you.
Pats205 has been an active poster here for a long time. He follows the results and posts, in this forum, meticulously. If he quotes a number or a statistic based on the results he has seen here over the years, he has earned a right to do so, by being an active member of this forum. Just showing up here one day and questioning his statements in insinuating manner shows a motive or in other words an agenda!

I said

» »
» » If you can point out other threads where clinics are doing this, I’ll
» » question them too. I don’t care which clinic does this, I will
» question
» » them all.
» »

mj2003 said

» u seem like u have a hard on for pats. we all get annoyed with pics and
» vids time after time but we make our point and move on. but its not about
» the pics is it? u sound more like u have a personal bone to pick here

did you really read all that I said?

» Coming to this particular case, the before and after pictures are not shot
» in exact conditions and it’s not ideal, but you can’t deny the quality of
» the result here. Of course the patient paid for it, but the result is
» there. If you can’t see it, don’t waste your time, a HT is not for you.
» Pats205 has been an active poster here for a long time. He follows the
» results and posts, in this forum, meticulously. If he quotes a number or a
» statistic based on the results he has seen here over the years, he has
» earned a right to do so, by being an active member of this forum. Just
» showing up here one day and questioning his statements in insinuating
» manner shows a motive or in other words an agenda!

Well said arvinlexky

» Jrivera3,
» As the saying goes “for the believer no proof is necessary, for the non
» believer no proof will suffice”. When it comes to HT, you shouldn’t be in
» either extreme. You shouldn’t be a naive believer who gets $cammed, or a
» non believer who questions everything, because it’ll get you no where. In

I was questioning 1 thing: why the wet/dry before and after pics? That’s not everything.

» today’s internet, inundated with pictures and videos, it is hard to believe
» or doubt anything. To make it worse, cosmetic procedures are secretive, if
» people are secure enough about the appearance they wouldn’t go under the
» knife in the first place. Most people who undergo a HT wants to keep it a
» secret, that’s why most pictures we see in this and all other forums
» doesn’t show the full face. Therefore to expect HT patients to pose as the
» forum posters desire (length or looks), is just a wishful thinking.

Er…no. The other reputable clinics do this routinely. When the patient is in the doctor’s office, they take dry before pics, so they can make an apples to apples comparison. This is easy, and s.o.p., for so many reputable clinics. It is far from wishful thinking.

» We can talk all day about protocols for pictures, documentation etc., but
» when you’re dealing with customers and patients in real life it’s a
» totally different ball game. You’re dealing with human beings, they come
» in all sizes, shapes and colors. Some times they are adamant and push for
» a last minute appointment, the clinic could be under-staffed, a supervisor
» for the photo documentation might be absent, if things can go wrong it’ll.
» Just go to a professionally run dental clinic and see if everything runs
» smoothly everyday!

This is kind of silly. No one is going to push for a last minute appointment that is so last minute that it’s like…literally in one minute that they get a surgery. And even if, in some strange world, this did actually happen, then there wouldn’t be ANY pictures. But here we have pictures. They’re just wet.

What size or shape the patient is doesn’t have any relevance at all as to whether you take a picture of his hair wet or dry.

If the clinic is under-staffed, then…who is taking the pictures with wet hair?

If the supervisor is absent, then…who is taking the pictures with wet hair?

None of these explanations add up.

I’ve been to the dentist. They always ask if you’ve had x-rays, and if you haven’t, they do them. And they do them in a standard way. All the dentists I’ve been to take the same set of pictures. What kind of dentists are you going to man?

» Coming to this particular case, the before and after pictures are not shot
» in exact conditions and it’s not ideal, but you can’t deny the quality of
» the result here. Of course the patient paid for it, but the result is
» there. If you can’t see it, don’t waste your time, a HT is not for you.

This is the whole point. How can you compare apples to oranges? Are you really sure of what you’re seeing? What did the patient look like before the surgery with dry, styled hair? You have no idea. No way to compare. Ironically, if you accept a result that is based on wet before and dry after pics…well, then maybe a HT is not for you. No joke man, in all seriousness. I really mean that with sincere concern for what you are saying.

» Pats205 has been an active poster here for a long time. He follows the
» results and posts, in this forum, meticulously. If he quotes a number or a
» statistic based on the results he has seen here over the years, he has
» earned a right to do so, by being an active member of this forum. Just
» showing up here one day and questioning his statements in insinuating
» manner shows a motive or in other words an agenda!

Er…no. No one earns a right to make stuff up, I don’t care how many posts they make or read. I’m sorry. I’m not saying Pats205 made anything up, but so far, he has not provided any evidence showing where he got that number. So as far as you and I really know, he could have made those numbers up. Again, not saying he did, but where’s the proof? Do you just take a salesman’s word for something? If Pats205 provides some kind of proof, I’ll apologize to Pats205 on this board for considering the possibility that he made the number up, deal?

I thought anyone could ask questions of any clinic here, no matter when they join? Is this not the case? Do I have to make a certain number of posts before I can ask a question?

As I explained, I questioned Pats205 because that was the ONLY thread on the page discussing wet before pics, which is a pet peeve of mine. And I made a pretty detailed explanation of what my “agenda” is.

You’re not even “insinuating” anything about me, you’re flat out saying I have an agenda…because I’m questioning some one? So does that mean you have an “agenda” against me? This could go round and round…

Find me another thread where someone is posting wet before pics and I’ll show you what my agenda is.

I agree , I have yet to hear an explanation as to why the before pics are taken wet. This is a requirement before surgery? I dont think so

To me its very simple

wet before pics make the patient appear MUCH BALDER than dry before pics

Thus the results of the transplant, if they show DRY AFTER PICS…look MUCH more dramatic, like the transplant has actually achieved much more coverage than it actually did

Lets face it, the balder you look in the before shot, the better it is for the clinic. If it was possible to airbrush before hair OUT of the pic, without it being discovered , I think this would also be done

For the clinics to make up excuses for their wet before pics , blame the patient being late, etc etc to me is not only BS but its laughable

To me there is a calcuated strategy by some clinics to take wet before pics. It happens so often that it cannot be a coincidence

jrivera3, i think your obsession with Armani is a little weird, almost every doctor uses some deceptive photo tricks in their posts at least once, Armani is not the only one and will not be the last, it is not acceptable but it will probably never change either, get over it!